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seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says..
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https://team.homeoftriathlon.ch/...-of-pre-race-warmups

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The Myths of Pre-Race Warm ups

The last 3 months culminating with the 70.3 World Champs in Nice, had me thinking how many athletes are hurting their races with their perceived correct warm up!
This is not just on race morning, but also in the lead up days. To see so many age groupers pounding the pavement, running before the start of their race is the prompt to pass on my thoughts in this area.
If you feel there is some common sense to my thoughts, it may indeed help you get more out of your race performance.

So first let's get into why do we do a warm up at all? The dictionary explains it as 'the act or preparation to have a positive readiness for an event'.
This is where we must listen, take away all other considerations and get back to the basics. To consider what will prepare us best for our race.
Most athletes think in terms of 'I must prepare for all three' before the race, as we are triathletes. In our personal squads, the ability to perform on race day is unquestioned. In fact one of the names that has been given to me, which I find very complimentary, is 'The Postman'. While some times we can't always deliver, our athletes seem to be ready for doing it at the best time, on race day.

I believe one of our advantages is we use methods that are not conventional in the crucial times just before a triathlon race. My first rule is we take care of motor skills recruitment before race day. The day before the race we do all three disciplines. We are not taking a day of nothing on that day. We do have a specific routine.
We run in morning.
We bike and then rack it in transition.
And the last thing of the day, we swim.

We don't swim on the course. Absolutely not. We go to a pool. If there is not a pool available, we instruct our athletes to keep a small stretch cord in their luggage, so they can actually swim in hotel pools as short of 8 to 10 meters.

So rule one - if there is no pool you can use before race day, you should book a hotel that has a small indoor pool. This allows the luxury of doing a swim as the last thing of the pre race day. It has many benefits, not the least is it can refresh you after a busy day. If you are not feeling great, we can 'swim that feeling out'.
No, it doesn't matter if you are a poor swimmer, it will help you greatly. Our athletes don't swim a lot, if everything is going well - the pros go about 2000m maximum. But if they are not feeling ok, they keep swimming easy until they do! And while I don't want to scare you, I have had some swim up to 6km if they felt bad. Only to win a national sprint championship the next day!

It's that important. This pre-race day allows us to swim as the main warm up prior to the race. To run and less so bike before, can have a devastating effect on your swim. Using both leg dominated disciplines to warm up for triathlon is not ideal. The reason is we have to swim first, predominantly with arms and less kick. At Trisutto we believe that the only warm up that has benefits, is a warm up that is swim orientated.

Now before you tell me, yes we warm up in the water on race morning, I believe that is also a mistake. In my mind, this is not a warm up at all. Why? We are called out of the water and stand there, for who knows how long. Remember, a warm up is to warm the muscles to a performance level. That's it. Nothing else matters. So using energy and glycogen stores that can't be replaced is again a negative rather than a positive.

Before, we all get our speed suits in a knot, who has watched any major swim meet? Olympics anyone?

Swimmers do not get near the water within at least 1 to 2 hours before their event. The water is cleared from their warmup and then they wait to get marshaled for at least 45 min before their race. That's just a fact! So, does that time interfere with their race? Does it affect their feel of the water? No!
However, they are keeping their body and muscles warm with copious amounts of clothing, and before going out to race they get their blood flowing with light out-of-the water exercise. Some also take a very hot shower if facilities exist.

However, my point is they are ready to swim without touching the water, or swimming a stroke, for 1 to 2, and sometimes 3 hours. This is a fact. So at Trisutto we have done our motor neuron recruitment, and replenished our glycogen levels hours before the race start. We turn up ready to go, not jump into water and then be cold standing around waiting for the start.

If it is very hot, we may jump in to cool off a little, but the point is when we are going to perform for 1, 2, 8 or 13 hours we haven't wasted our energy stores with warming up procedures that could be called 'slowing us up' procedures - that I do see at every race.

Believe me, a 750, 1500, 1900, or 3800 meter swim will be more than enough to warm you up for the crucial bike and run legs. Your swim will be sharper by using a swim preparation warm up rather than a triathlon one.

aside bashing this persons history, interesting thoughts, especially when he brings up swim meets

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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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i absolutely agree that your warmup does not need to occur immediately before you swim. and, i agree that the warmup is better when it is sport specific. (a run warmup is not as good for a swim as is a swim warmup). that said...

1. when most (indeed, when more than 1 out of 50) good swimmers in a big meet get up in the morning, go thru their days, get to the pool, get on the starting blocks, and swim their races, such race being the first time they've gotten into the pool that day, then i'll take brett's point. until and unless there's evidence that this actually ever happens, then i expect brett to wrestle with my point: that all swimmers warmup before their races.

2. since brett brought up the olympcis, i'd be interested to know how many open water events are contested by athletes who choose not to warm up prior to the event. if there is any event in swimming that one assumes requires no warmup it's the 10k open water. i'd love to hear how many swim that event while eschewing any race-day warmup.

3. it is no skin off brett's teeth whether anyone dies in the swim. he can give whatever advice he wants and there's no blowback to him. for others, not so much.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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He's wrong about swim meets though...that's why all high level meets have a designated warm-up pool
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Before, we all get our speed suits in a knot, who has watched any major swim meet? Olympics anyone?

Swimmers do not get near the water within at least 1 to 2 hours before their event. The water is cleared from their warmup and then they wait to get marshaled for at least 45 min before their race. That's just a fact! So, does that time interfere with their race? Does it affect their feel of the water? No!
However, they are keeping their body and muscles warm with copious amounts of clothing, and before going out to race they get their blood flowing with light out-of-the water exercise. Some also take a very hot shower if facilities exist.

However, my point is they are ready to swim without touching the water, or swimming a stroke, for 1 to 2, and sometimes 3 hours. This is a fact. So at Trisutto we have done our motor neuron recruitment, and replenished our glycogen levels hours before the race start. We turn up ready to go, not jump into water and then be cold standing around waiting for the start.

Not sure if things changed in the past 10-15 years, but when I was swimming club there was a warm up pool like 95% of the time. 100% at larger meets. Each athlete is different in how they warm up, but I'd be very surprised if a pro swimmer warms up over an hour before their event.

Strava
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:


aside bashing this persons history, interesting thoughts, especially when he brings up swim meets



While I generally agree with what he says about triathlon, he's just wrong about major swim meets. Yeah, the main pool is closed for warmups once the meet starts, but there's always a second pool that athletes use not only for cooling down after their race, but often for warming up shortly before they swim.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Sep 20, 19 8:25
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
He's wrong about swim meets though...that's why all high level meets have a designated warm-up pool

^^ this. I'm no expert but every Olympics they show the warm up pool on MSNBC or whoever has the Olympics contract.
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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1) His post has nothing at all to do with preventing heart attacks.
2) He says there is no point in warming up when you will have to stand around for 20 minutes afterward...
3) But then he says swimmers warm up 1-2 hours before they race....
4) He says the point of the warm-up is to "warm" the muscles... but that's not really it.

If I wake up in the morning and immediately excersize right after getting out of bed, my performance is terrible. My legs and arms feel heavy, I have little strength, fatigue seems to build rapidly. If I just go about my daily routine for 3-4 hours, then workout, I feel fine. If I do an easy warmup, I can get to that high-performance feeling much more quickly, as in 10-12 minutes, which is what I need on race morning. I belive, but I do not know, that this has to do with expanding blood vessels (particularly capillaries is my guess because I think the major vessels expand rather quickly) in my muscles to allow for adequate blood flow after being asleep and lying down for 8 hours.

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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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So using energy and glycogen stores that can't be replaced is again a negative rather than a positive.
---

I'm sorry, Brett, but this also seems wrong. If we have to stand around for 'who knows how long' then it's quite easy to replace calories.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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I dont know how he did it, but there is maybe one thing he said that is partially true. Congratulations sutto, you get the Trump award for the day..

If it is cold outside, and you warm up and just have to stand around in your suit, then yes, you will get cold. But that is not true for warm races(most) or if you can put on a jacket or other warm up clothing, or if you are in a wetsuit and/or able to stay in the water up to the swim start. So maybe he is 20% right on one point, all the rest is bullocks. Every swim meet I have done in the last 40 years, had a warm up pool, one that most get in right before and right after swimming their races. I guess all those folks warming up and down are just wasting energy, and just dont know it..

Ya, pick the olympics, the only meet where swimmers have to be in a ready room for 30 or so minutes. You can bet they warmed up 2 to 5k that morning, swam a prelim or two, then warmed up again in the afternoon/evening for that final. Wasnt he a swim coach at one time, must have lost his memory of how meets actually work..
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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2. since brett brought up the olympcis, i'd be interested to know how many open water events are contested by athletes who choose not to warm up prior to the event. if there is any event in swimming that one assumes requires no warmup it's the 10k open water. i'd love to hear how many swim that event while eschewing any race-day warmup.


As a collegiate swimmer who competed in 10k Open Water Nationals not too long ago: almost every swimmer warmed up on race morning prior to the race. There were daily swims leading up to race day, as well as morning warm-up on your own. On top of this, the water was 69 degrees, that's NOT wetsuit legal by USA swimming standards, yet we all warmed up pre-race without wetsuits in this cold water to activate the right muscles.
Last edited by: Squidly: Sep 20, 19 8:52
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Those that mentioned warm up pools for big meets... perhaps this is a north American thing only? He is majority based in EU, where pool access is much less
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Those that mentioned warm up pools for big meets... perhaps this is a north American thing only?
---

Perhaps. Then again, perhaps the warm-up pools in the US explain the American dominance in swimming...






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Those that mentioned warm up pools for big meets... perhaps this is a north American thing only? He is majority based in EU, where pool access is much less

I really doubt it. For major meets, that's a FINA requirement as far as I remember.

Even for our local masters meets where we don't have a separate warmup pool, 1 lane will be designated as a warmup / warmdown lane for use during the meet.

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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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"I guess all those folks warming up and down are just wasting energy, and just dont know it.."


Well, there is some research that supports that a warmup doesn't help improve your performance in longer events, it just makes you feel better at the beginning of a race. Additionally, if the race doesn't start within 10-15 minutes of your warmup, it's ineffective. So people with excessively long warmups or that warmup a long time before the race may be wasting energy. https://www.velonews.com/...bout-warm-ups_434875

That said, in the context of triathlon and having a heart attack during the swim, feeling better at the start may make all the difference in the world.

Personally I like a little warmup, especially if the water is cold, just to get used to the water temp. But I have finally gotten to a point where I don't go out too fast for my fitness. It's only taken me 20 years or so to figure that out.
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Those that mentioned warm up pools for big meets... perhaps this is a north American thing only? He is majority based in EU, where pool access is much less

I can guarantee you there is a separate warmup pool for any big international/national meet. You just don't always see the warmup pool on tv. It may not necessarily be a swimmers primary warmup, but every swimmer is in the water 15-60 minutes before they actually dive off the block for their race.

He's completely wrong about swimmers warmup.

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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
https://team.homeoftriathlon.ch/en/teams/home-of-triathlon/blog/the-myths-of-pre-race-warmups

Quote:


Before, we all get our speed suits in a knot, who has watched any major swim meet? Olympics anyone?

Swimmers do not get near the water within at least 1 to 2 hours before their event. The water is cleared from their warmup and then they wait to get marshaled for at least 45 min before their race. That's just a fact! So, does that time interfere with their race? Does it affect their feel of the water? No!
However, they are keeping their body and muscles warm with copious amounts of clothing, and before going out to race they get their blood flowing with light out-of-the water exercise. Some also take a very hot shower if facilities exist.

However, my point is they are ready to swim without touching the water, or swimming a stroke, for 1 to 2, and sometimes 3 hours. This is a fact.


aside bashing this persons history, interesting thoughts, especially when he brings up swim meets

BULLSPIT

Multiphase warmup for all swimmers at all levels, open water and pool swimming. Main warmup period before the session begins, then specific warmup before you go to the blocks at a smaller meet, or report to the call room at a bigger meet. No more than 30 minutes out of the water for the bigger meets, and sometimes as little as 30 seconds at smaller meets.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Those that mentioned warm up pools for big meets... perhaps this is a north American thing only? He is majority based in EU, where pool access is much less


I can guarantee you there is a separate warmup pool for any big international/national meet. You just don't always see the warmup pool on tv. It may not necessarily be a swimmers primary warmup, but every swimmer is in the water 15-60 minutes before they actually dive off the block for their race.

He's completely wrong about swimmers warmup.

there is no sport, anywhere, of any type, whose adherents from the elite to the avid weekender do not routinely engage in a warmup.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I dont know how he did it, but there is maybe one thing he said that is partially true. Congratulations sutto, you get the Trump award for the day..

If it is cold outside, and you warm up and just have to stand around in your suit, then yes, you will get cold. But that is not true for warm races(most) or if you can put on a jacket or other warm up clothing, or if you are in a wetsuit and/or able to stay in the water up to the swim start. So maybe he is 20% right on one point, all the rest is bullocks. Every swim meet I have done in the last 40 years, had a warm up pool, one that most get in right before and right after swimming their races. I guess all those folks warming up and down are just wasting energy, and just dont know it..

Ya, pick the olympics, the only meet where swimmers have to be in a ready room for 30 or so minutes. You can bet they warmed up 2 to 5k that morning, swam a prelim or two, then warmed up again in the afternoon/evening for that final. Wasnt he a swim coach at one time, must have lost his memory of how meets actually work..

The only Olympic gold medalist I can recall that didn't do a proper warm up before their final was Gary Hall Jr. The story goes that he jumped in the warmup pool, did a couple of sculls with his hands, said "yup, I've got the feel for the water now" then got out.

He was wired a little differently than most though...

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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:

there is no sport, anywhere, of any type, whose adherents from the elite to the avid weekender do not routinely engage in a warmup.

I don't see anyone warming up for RAAM or Badwater. :) (I agree with you in principle, just being a ST dick.)
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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I'm still going to stick by my thought that there is value in being able to swim out and follow the same path you will when you're finishing. I'm able to find a higher point in the background of the beach I can shoot for when sighting on the way back. This is especially helpful when there is a glare or the swim buoys are just not very big to see at a quick glance. If I get warmed up in the process, great, but that's not my goal for getting in the water before the start.

Just my $0.02

Great things never come from comfort zones.
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:

Ya, pick the olympics, the only meet where swimmers have to be in a ready room for 30 or so minutes. You can bet they warmed up 2 to 5k that morning, swam a prelim or two, then warmed up again in the afternoon/evening for that final. Wasnt he a swim coach at one time, must have lost his memory of how meets actually work..

as other said, he is just wrong about the Olympic swimmers not getting warmed up right before races.

Story about Lilly King/3rd hand account (though Cody Miller has alluded to this twice in his podcast so I think it probably true):

Lilly will wait until the last possible minute to get to the ready room, testing the patience of the marshals and coaches only to walk in cool as a cucumber and give off the air of, "I'm the main event here so you guys just need to chill out while I am getting ready."

The specific 3rd hand account I heard was the US women 4x 100MR was threatened with a DQ if King walked in however late she walked in for the 100M breast final.
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
He's wrong about swim meets though...that's why all high level meets have a designated warm-up pool

This ^ most age group or masters meets do as well. I swim 600 - 1000m between events to flush the system... and prep for the next race.

___________________________________________
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Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Yup he was a character.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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even olympic weightlifters go blast off some weights for some post-activation potentation before the main event!

Slowman wrote:
stevej wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Those that mentioned warm up pools for big meets... perhaps this is a north American thing only? He is majority based in EU, where pool access is much less


I can guarantee you there is a separate warmup pool for any big international/national meet. You just don't always see the warmup pool on tv. It may not necessarily be a swimmers primary warmup, but every swimmer is in the water 15-60 minutes before they actually dive off the block for their race.

He's completely wrong about swimmers warmup.


there is no sport, anywhere, of any type, whose adherents from the elite to the avid weekender do not routinely engage in a warmup.

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Re: seeing that thread about no swim warm up for sprint race... this is what sutto says.. [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe if people didnt warm up in training, they wouldnt need to warm up at an event.

I swim 15 minutes after waking up at 4:45am. No warmup. I jump in the pool and swim.
I run within 15 minutes of running and cycling at 4:00am. Straight out of bed clothes on and hit the road or trainer. No stretching or warming up.

Never had a heart attack.
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