running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed

Dec 17, 11 19:07

Post #1 of 42 (18320 views)

Both of my knees are pretty much shot. I started with meniscus tear in the right knee, which then turned to major legions of up to the size of a 50 cent piece of missing articular cartilage and osteoarthritis..resulted in microfracture procedure...pain tolerable for most activities and found the more I ran, the better the pain, no swelling. Move to the left knee, like bad brothers, it has followed suit...torn meniscus...Dr. repaired, but found that my osteoarthritis was much worse in this knee...not much pain, but swelling has not come down, at all. So I have a balloon of a knee, with very little pain. I have NOT tried running on it at all, have increased strength thru PT, but swelling refuses to come down. Had it drained and cortisone done on it, within 5 days, it was back to usual swelling. I'm at a loss, I emailed Dr. he arranged for Euflexxa injections, just wondering if anyone has had them and their results good or bad....or any other advice. I'd kill for knee replacements but I'm kinda young at 36....Looking to see if anyone else has had a similar experience....Thanks in advance....

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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 5:29

Post #2 of 42 (18254 views)

Your post sort of scares me a bit. I've had 3 surgeries and I think I am due for another "clean up". My symptoms are similar except for the swelling. I don't have any swelling that is visible although sometimes my knee stiffens up and motrin helps to loosen it up so I am assuming it's swelling. But just like you, the more I run the better it feels. I also do some strength training and that has helped as well. But as for running long I can't really do that without much pain. I can run up to about 10 mile and I can run everyday but I can't run longer than that. I am scheduled to go back to the doc on the 5th and schedule my surgery. But as for doing full IM stuff, I might be done. Not sure it's worth it anymore. I'm still going to do triathlon but half might be my limit. Good luck. I don't know anything about that injection but I wish you the best. I'm 33 so I know how you feel about having all these issues at a pretty young age.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [AlexG] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 5:52

Post #3 of 42 (18240 views)

I feel the same way, I think I might be done too, with running anyway....kills me. I've been running ever since I can remember, I just love it. Anyway, my dr. is trying to accommodate me the best he can biting his tongue I think!!! Just wanted to know if anyone has tried it with success. or, know if it is a valid treatment. I appreciate your feedback alex

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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 6:12

Post #4 of 42 (18230 views)

Knee joints need lots of range of motion and loading to produce protective synovial fluid. But a knee joint with damaged cartilage and meniscus cannot tolerate the loading. Euflexxa is designed to provide synovial fluid to the area. With or without the injection you will need to gradually, incrementally improve the ability of the joint to tolerate loading. If you keep overdoing it you will further damage the cartilage, if you slowly resume loading and running then you have a chance to run and compete again.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 6:38

Post #5 of 42 (18221 views)

If Euflexxa is similar to Synvisc or Orthovisc the answer is yes, runners in my area have had big success with Syn/Ortho injections and running again. However, I think your running days should be over. Get the injections, protect your knees, swim, bike, race the mountain bike and continue to be able to walk. Being able to walk in the future is something you have been clearly under-rating.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [JRAJR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 7:40

Post #6 of 42 (18191 views)

This is exactly what I have been doing. My surgery was back in Sept. I followed very closely to what my PT told me to do, made great progress, no impact activities and really took care of the knee with ice and advil....swelling just never came down. Its very frustrating, knowing that the arthritis will always be there, and if that is what is causing the swelling, that I'll have to go thru rounds of draining/injections unless I don't use the leg. I stand all day, nature of my job, and theres no way to avoid not using it. Giving up running wont be that bad, but it just seems like everything bothers it. I appreciate the feedback

JRAJR wrote:

Knee joints need lots of range of motion and loading to produce protective synovial fluid. But a knee joint with damaged cartilage and meniscus cannot tolerate the loading. Euflexxa is designed to provide synovial fluid to the area. With or without the injection you will need to gradually, incrementally improve the ability of the joint to tolerate loading. If you keep overdoing it you will further damage the cartilage, if you slowly resume loading and running then you have a chance to run and compete again.

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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 7:42

Post #7 of 42 (18189 views)

I agree...its easier being from the outside looking in with unbiased point of view. I appreciate that. I'm a newbie to tri's and was hoping to get some years in, not in the cards, it going to have to be ok...got me into cycling which I really enjoy and maybe now I can buy a road bike! Thanks for the response.

Sweeney wrote:

If Euflexxa is similar to Synvisc or Orthovisc the answer is yes, runners in my area have had big success with Syn/Ortho injections and running again. However, I think your running days should be over. Get the injections, protect your knees, swim, bike, race the mountain bike and continue to be able to walk. Being able to walk in the future is something you have been clearly under-rating.

The Rat Snake:
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 7:57

Post #8 of 42 (18180 views)

You are still less than 3 months since surgery so persistent swelling is not out of the question especially if you have been standing all day. Try to find some way to unload your knee during the day, sit frequently if only briefly, maybe your PT can put you in a knee-unloading brace. Then exercise with no load, like sitting on a table and swinging your knee, hundreds of reps per day. No cycling or elliptical type exercise though until you have no swelling. Don't plan on running anytime soon but stick with it and you can make the joint healthy. Lose weight if you need to also.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [JRAJR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 8:04

Post #9 of 42 (18175 views)

I was hoping by now, especially from a 10 minutes procedure, it would be cleared up....but you say makes perfect sense. Patience!!! not a virtue I have!!! I'll work on it though...thanks.

JRAJR wrote:

You are still less than 3 months since surgery so persistent swelling is not out of the question especially if you have been standing all day. Try to find some way to unload your knee during the day, sit frequently if only briefly, maybe your PT can put you in a knee-unloading brace. Then exercise with no load, like sitting on a table and swinging your knee, hundreds of reps per day. No cycling or elliptical type exercise though until you have no swelling. Don't plan on running anytime soon but stick with it and you can make the joint healthy. Lose weight if you need to also.

The Rat Snake:
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 8:16

Post #10 of 42 (18169 views)

I should have said that being able to walk in the future is something we all clearly under-rate. I had surgery on both knees in 2005, altered my training and racing to only run in the woods or on a track and only racing sprints and olympics and I had big success for a couple years until arthritis in my right hip stopped my running again. Took up mountain bike racing successfully until this spring when both hips gave out. Now, I just had bilateral hip resurfacings and I'm dreaming of running again next summer. New plan, race 5K to 5 mile running races and sprint Tri's, middle distance mountain bike races; 6 hr to 100 miles, and open water swim races in the 2.4 mile, 4K range. I guess we never get over it.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 8:26

Post #11 of 42 (18163 views)

that's pretty much the route i have taken. meniscus, arthritis, microfracture, etc. i have been getting euflexxa injections every 6 months or so. really helps me run/walk/stairs with much reduced swelling and pain. when i get toward the end of a cycle, pain and stiffness very noticeable going up/down stairs. it works for me, not necessarily for everyone.

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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [madz] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 8:52

Post #12 of 42 (18145 views)

how long are you planning on doing this cycle if I may ask? do you find the procedure painful or have any side effects? Funny things is I don't have pain, just swelling...maybe if I ran I might have pain, but right now, its just really swollen. Thanks for reply

madz wrote:

that's pretty much the route i have taken. meniscus, arthritis, microfracture, etc. i have been getting euflexxa injections every 6 months or so. really helps me run/walk/stairs with much reduced swelling and pain. when i get toward the end of a cycle, pain and stiffness very noticeable going up/down stairs. it works for me, not necessarily for everyone.

The Rat Snake:
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 10:43

Post #13 of 42 (18110 views)

my knee doc currently doesn't see a downside to continuing. our plan is to continue as long as its working. eventually, with my racing/training she says that i will need more work at some point. i have not experienced any side effects, and the procedure really isn't painful, just a bit uncomfortable.

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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 11:37

Post #14 of 42 (18089 views)

I had Euflexxa injections this past June/July. I had a cortisone injection before that. Whether it got me through the season culminating in 1/2 Iron at Steelhead is debatable. I made it through that race, but at a much slower pace than usual. It still hurt and I was pissed. I shut the running down after that. I'm not a fan. It was expensive too. I with I had that $1,000.00 back ( at least we met our deductible). Man the bike gear I could have bought?

Riding is soo much more enjoyable, but running has always been my strength, so I'm not giving up. Previously I would only run 3 times a week. I, now, think that that wasn't enough. I've been walking every morning since the beginning of November and am two weeks into mixing in some running. My strategy is to very slowly build up to running 6 days a week. I'll try an easy hard, easy hard with the intention to build up my mileage and thus the resilience in my knees. So far so good. Stay tuned...

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [M Ernst] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 12:20

Post #15 of 42 (18072 views)

That's a good plan, I think it will work. I recommend you add high reps of full ROM daily, 2-300 reps per day.
You might consider glucosamine and chondroitin supplements to help rebuild the cartilage.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [madz] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 12:22

Post #16 of 42 (18070 views)

cool, thanks!

madz wrote:

my knee doc currently doesn't see a downside to continuing. our plan is to continue as long as its working. eventually, with my racing/training she says that i will need more work at some point. i have not experienced any side effects, and the procedure really isn't painful, just a bit uncomfortable.

The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [M Ernst] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 12:25

Post #17 of 42 (18067 views)

Thanks, I appreciate your opinion. I was on that plan last year, and was doing great running 6 times a week until the middle of july when all this shit went down. consistency was certainly the key then but who knows now, my knees are like bad brothers, what happened to one i happening to the other!!! Good luck with your plan.

M Ernst wrote:

I had Euflexxa injections this past June/July. I had a cortisone injection before that. Whether it got me through the season culminating in 1/2 Iron at Steelhead is debatable. I made it through that race, but at a much slower pace than usual. It still hurt and I was pissed. I shut the running down after that. I'm not a fan. It was expensive too. I with I had that $1,000.00 back ( at least we met our deductible). Man the bike gear I could have bought?

Riding is soo much more enjoyable, but running has always been my strength, so I'm not giving up. Previously I would only run 3 times a week. I, now, think that that wasn't enough. I've been walking every morning since the beginning of November and am two weeks into mixing in some running. My strategy is to very slowly build up to running 6 days a week. I'll try an easy hard, easy hard with the intention to build up my mileage and thus the resilience in my knees. So far so good. Stay tuned...

The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [JRAJR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 12:57

Post #18 of 42 (18055 views)

"add high reps of full ROM daily, 2-300 reps per day"

Sorry, I don't know what ROM is?

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [M Ernst] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 13:59

Post #19 of 42 (18047 views)

Sorry about that, ROM is range of motion. Knee ROM reps can be carried out by sitting on a table or a truck tailgate and swinging the lower leg. Joints/cartilage require motion to produce synovial fluid and provide nutrition. You description of slow progression of running is the right idea. Good luck.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 14:06

Post #20 of 42 (18045 views)

I'm having the Orthovisc injections starting this week. My knee doesn't sound as bad as yours but I'll let you know how it goes. I have a 15mm chondral pothole on the lateral trochlear side of my knee, so not a completely weight bearing area. I had a loose body in there too (12mm) which caused a lot of pain, irritation, locking and some wearing of the patella surface. I had arthroscopic surgery in October to remove the loose body but decided against the Microfracture for now. My knee has recovered nicely to the point that I am able to bike, swim and walk without pain but my knee still feels weird when I run, can't describe it well, no pain but definitely not right either. OS thinks the injections will help things move smoother in there. In the mean time I have done PT to strengthen my weak right quad and don't plan on doing much running. Luckily for me, I'd pretty much achieved all I wanted to in terms of running and Triathlon so it's not so hard for me to let it go. I'm 37 so I'm looking at the long term health of my knee.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [runninginaz] [ In reply to ]

Dec 18, 11 15:00

Post #21 of 42 (18019 views)

Thanks for the reply and good outlook on the whole picture....I'm pretty satisfied with my running, but with only 2 halfs and a full, not necessarily satisfied with my tri career but I'd rather be able to walk and mess around with my 3 kids when they are older too!!

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A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 11 6:58

Post #22 of 42 (17941 views)

You also might want to look at unloader brace(s), if you are having issues from the standing all day. Prior to my osteotomy, I found mine to be a great help when I had to be on my feet for extended periods of time. I never ran in mine, but I know some folks do.

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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [mmrocker13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 11 7:13

Post #23 of 42 (17935 views)

I can't afford another one!!! but thanks....I'll look into to it...waiting to hear from dr. today, want to talk more about options.

mmrocker13 wrote:

You also might want to look at unloader brace(s), if you are having issues from the standing all day. Prior to my osteotomy, I found mine to be a great help when I had to be on my feet for extended periods of time. I never ran in mine, but I know some folks do.

The Rat Snake:
A Tribute Race at Gilbert Lake State Park, Laurens, NY May 16 2015
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Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [dforbes] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 5:50

Post #24 of 42 (17870 views)

What did your doc say? I had the first of 3 Orthovisc injections yesterday. The shot was painful and I have some minor bruising around that site but it was otherwise OK.

Re: running out of knee options, euflexxa prescribed [runninginaz] [ In reply to ]

Dec 21, 11 6:28

Post #25 of 42 (17858 views)

nothing yet....I'm upstate NY and he's downstate so trying to figure when I can go and take off work etc...is a pain, plus his response time for a phone consult isn't exactly the best....but what are you going to do???? I'll post an update for sure...in fact, thanks for reminding me, I'll bug him via email!!! Hope yours works out man...

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