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read any of the tri-newbie posts lately...
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I only lurk there once in awhile but today I noticed a number of posts from newbie triathletes who have just bought their first bikes, all tri bikes and not road bikes and are making comments about being afraid to ride them. There's comments about being afraid to steer with aero bars, winds blowing them around too much on aero bars, and one person even bought a P2K and had "her coach" take the aero bars off the bike so she would just ride on bullhorns with STI installed.

This is one of the problems with triathlon and why tri-geeks are regarded by roadies as bozos on bikes, and just a potential accident waiting to happen.

These people, with little cycling experience shouldn't be purchasing tri bikes as first bikes. They should be buying road bikes first and then developing basic cycling skills preferably by learning how to ride with a roadie group. They can race their early triathlons on a road bike with clip-ons and after they get some cycling skills, then move to a tri bike.

I'm seeing more of this since I run mostly sprint tris. Newbies are showing up on tri bikes and causing crashes. Saw three of them in one sprint tri last year. Almost was involved in an accident twice in another race because of very poor bike handling skills of other competitors. I slowed down in the transition area at a corner with pylons and some dope didn't and wiped out taking the pylon with him and almost me as well. On the other occassion I was coming up fast behind some guy to pass him just as he reached behind for a water bottle. As he did this he swerved across the road in front of me. No excuse for this. Any half decent cyclist should be able to keep his bike in a strait line while reaching for the water bottle.

I also blame bike shops. They're acting irresponsibly by being all too willing to sell someone with no cycling experience a tri bike rather than first at least attempting to discuss the merits of a road vs tri bike for the beginner. You can argue the customer is always right, but who is convincing these newbies that they absolutely should have a tri bike first.

Triathletes are not regarded as skilled cyclists (unless they actually came in from a cycling background) and that's a reputation they've earned. I can ride wheel to wheel in close pack formation with roadies and not be concerned in the least. But in a sprint tri these days it's scarey.

That's my rant for the day.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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>>Triathletes are not regarded as skilled cyclists (unless they actually came in from a cycling background) and that's a reputation they've earned. I can ride wheel to wheel in close pack formation with roadies and not be concerned in the least. But in a sprint tri these days it's scarey.<<

Even worse here are new bike riders (mostly female) who want to jump right into racing (crits) who haven't done much group riding. But yes, a lot of what you say is true.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Any half decent cyclist should be able to keep his bike in a strait line while reaching for the water bottle.

Some folks barely seem to be able to do this in a car, let alone on a bike.

I am a newbie, and I would not be oppossed to a "bike test" in order to race ... where you display an ability to ride straight, brake sufficiently, perhaps swerve to avoid an obstacle, etc. I wouldn't be oppossed to having to get a "racing license", so to speak.

Seems like newbies cause quite a bit of trouble in the swim too. There has to be a way of educating newbies on how to enjoy racing without causing undue frustration on more experienced racers.

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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How about this thread...

http://www.trinewbies.com/phorum2/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21542&posts=1
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I couldn't disagree more. When I bought my Triathlon cycle, everyone said I should get a road bike first. They all warned me how the "roadies" would not want me coming on group rides. In the two years since I have had my bike I have not went on any group rides nor do I have any interest in riding in a group. The reason I like the sport of triathlon is because I don't have to relay on other people to participate. Now that I have become a decent bicyclist, I keep having these "roadies" ride one inch from my back tire for miles. One guy followed me for 25 miles and then turned around at the same time as me. Apparently, they like to take it easy and draft. So I had to install some water bottle launchers on the back of my bike so that they will keep their distance.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Damn all those new people buying bikes, supporting their local LBS, hiring people to coach them, paying entry fees and keeping races going and new races being developed. Why can't they all come to the event with exactly as much experience as the rest of us? Are you kidding? TNT is tough to swallow for just this reason, but they are also employing several of my friends as coaches and then they graduate from TNT to hire other friends as coaches, buy their next bike from the shops I frequent, and I wasn't going to pay $75 for camping at Wildflower anyway so what do I care if Terry has sold too many entries to his race. He's a businessman, no harm no foul. We all did our first triathlon at some point in time. And not everyone comes from a cycling back ground. Glad to see these folks out there. Take a moment to think back about someone who mentored you on your way up. Have you done the same for others? Maybe not in a structured way, but just giving a little friendly help or advice. Should people start on a road bike? Preferrable, but not always realistic with limited resources.

Cathy, that's why beginners start at the bottom (cat5) and work their way up. Everyone goes through the same progression. Maybe time for you to upgrade? Actually, there are kooks in every category thinking they can put their size 44 bars into a size 18 slot or dive up the inside and try to 'late brake' the corner. It is no different in the guy's pack, road race or crit, it doesn't matter. I think it's great that teams like VeloBella and McGuire are recruiting heavily and bringing tons of women into the sport. It's been a sausage fest for too long. They'll get better. You strike me as an individual with cahones (figuratively, of course), be the patron of your pack that day and help the other gal understand. As a seasoned rider, let them know when they are doing something wrong, and what they should be doing instead. Nicely first. Forceably second. Or politely suggest they hook up with one of the mentoring teams. It's also still early in the season, even the best riders take a race or two to get comfortable banging bars again.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Why didn't you stay long enough to rant there at tri newbies online?

Sure lots of new triathletes have bike handling issues. That's why they post there, to get tips on bike handling. New triathletes want to be better but a lot of them don't post their questions because of the fear of being made fun of.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [Amstel] [ In reply to ]
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Amstel that is a good time to relieve yourself :)

cmetri cathy only likes things until they become popular and then holds regretment for there popularity.



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Why don't you post there too?

I know most newbies post there and read here, but your knowledge would be helpful.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [Pam] [ In reply to ]
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"Why don't you post there too? "

Two reason I guess:

1) This is a much better forum to get advanced technical info.

2) I waste enough time in the day on this forum. No need to double it.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [beatnic_tx] [ In reply to ]
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I have to disagree with the original post and agree with the more positive ones. Sure I have had issues with newbies but I have more frequent issues with seasoned triathletes. MY main beef is riding on their aerobars in a paceline, pack or even a small group this is dangerious and not limited to triathletes also roadies. Some of these people have done tri's for 10-15 yrs. I refuse to ride with them!!

my 2 cents

mike
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Roadies!Roadies!!!!AHHH We have a cycling club here of all "Roadies" Except for two guys that are cat 3 and above none of them bikes as much as any of the triathletes. But they are all sure experts because the belong to a club. As far as riding in packs. None of them do,except a couple of guys who do crits. The law here,which the club enforces is you can not ride two abreast. So none of them ride in groups. On an organized century,a couple of them did ride in a pace line.With that though,none of them finished under 5:45although the triathletes finished in 5. However,I was told that to ride in the group again that I could not wear my sleeveless jersey(WTF). I am sorry,I agree that true bike racers have better handling skills.It seems though that the percentage of roadies who actually race as compaered to the total of those in the clubs(at least around here)is small. The majority I have found in the bike clubs are elitists.Because they own a bike and are in the club they are "roadies".I grant that you are correct in the context of the road riders you are referring to,but again what are the percentage of those guys in most clubs where all the people the people that belong think they are superior to Triathletes.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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dang, i'm glad i read this post from the "pros" before deciding to buy a tri bike. how many tri and miles must i do on a road bike before i'm not considered a newbie and can buy a tri bike?? i know for a fact that in road cycling (the tour de france) there are no accidents from the pros because they have the experience to prevent it!! how many miles must i run on the track before i have enough experience to run on the street?? At least the people posting over there "know their limitations" (clint eastwood) or they wouldn't mention it. flame away!!!
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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The group I ride with has some racers and ex racers. These are the guys that the rest of us have learned a lot from. Their bike handling skills are definately much superior than mine.

Maybe I ranted a bit muchbut my point is that it may not be the wisest decision for a newbie triathlete with limited cycling experience to go out and buy a tri bike right away. IMO, they should develop some skills first by riding with roadies on a road bike.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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To your "The group I ride with has some racers and ex racers. These are the guys that the rest of us have learned a lot from. Their bike handling skills are definately much superior than mine.

Man I wish ther were guys and gals here who had that experiance! I sure could learn from people like that.

I guess I over responded from the other side. Everyone here who owns a bike seems to lok down on any who do Tri's.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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And who should decide you!
Would cat 1 racers say you are GOOD enough to ride with them?
Go judge yourself---------just made my DA list
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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woops maybe I ranted tooooo much: )
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I am a triathlete. I started out as a triathlete. Why would I need a road bike or to start out riding with roadies? It is possible to develop bike handling skills with a triathlon bike and riding on your own.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [yakfshr1] [ In reply to ]
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while i can't agree with all of cerveloguy's post, there is some merit to what he says. if someone knows ahead of time that they aren't comfortable riding in an aero position yet(or have never done it) or on bullhorns, then i don't think it makes a whole bunch of sense to buy a dedicated tri bike. there is some risk of accident and injury there. i think some people are given erroneous advice in that they are told they need a dedicated tri bike if they are going to race(this forum contributes to that in my opinion), when for most people a road bike with clip-ons would be an excellent and in some ways safer choice.

to analogize, if you were nervous about riding a motorcycle, most people wouldn't go out and purchase the fastest, twitchiest bike around, but that is what happens to a lot of people when they make that first bike purchase.

however, people of all skill levels make stupid decisions in the name of competition and there are just as many experienced riders that present greater dangers because they think they can handle the bike in any situation.




f/k/a mclamb6
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Roadies need to get off their high horses!! I've seen tons off poor bike handling skills from "roadies". Its not "roadies" vs "triathletes". Its poor bikers v good bikers. I've been racing crits, tris and mtb races for 14 years. I"m an instructor with IPMBA, been to the USCF cycling college and I can out handle the majority of "roadies" out there. I can bump your handle bar, elbow, knee makes no difference to me......so.....quit fanning the fire with all the "roadies" v "triathlete" baloney!!

You all were new to the sport at one time or another, too! I'll bet your bike handling skills were not god given. Cycling background is bull as far as I'm concerned. DUH.....how do get "cycling background" if ya don't start riding one first!

I sold all my "road bikes" years ago and ride nothing but tri bikes. Yep, there's things ya don't do and things expected of you when you ride in a group on a tri bike. And most of them apply to "roadies" too. So if you see someone breaking the rules......tell them so.....they may not know!

OK.... off my high horse....sorry........let the arguement begin if you wish.....this is just MY opinion......you know...everyone has one!

.
.
Paul
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [yakfshr1] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the basic point, tri bikes are harder to handle than road bikes. I think we all can agree on that. Now, while we all have been riding bikes since we were 5 (cept for those decades after we got a car), bike riding is dangerous. Especially on the road, with cars and other cyclists (if your in a pack, or a tri), you need to know how to handle your bike pretty well. Now, i would not put an 8 yr old on a bike and point him on some heavily traveled road. Many older people just getting into the sport havent ridden a bike in over twenty years. Are they gonna have the bike handling ability to aviod potholes, cars, pedestrians, all while riding near other people (again, while in a group, or a tri, where there are other people on the course)? Maybe, maybe not. Im not gonna say, whether people need to start out on tri bikes or road bikes, but i do think people should at least consider the fact that many tri bikes are a little hard to handle. To think its stupid for people to ask themselves, "can i control this?" is absurd. There are some extreme aero positions i dont feel stable in, so i dont ride them, even if they are faster. People shouldnt buy things they cant control, its dangerous, of course, if they can safely control it, go ahead, buy it, more power to you.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cray] [ In reply to ]
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"It is possible to develop bike handling skills with a triathlon bike and riding on your own."

I also started out as a triathlete but it wasn't until riding with the group that I began to develop any handling skills. You just don't to that degree if riding solo. But of course it depends on the group. As already mentioned our group has people with racing experience including one guy who raced in Europe years ago. How these guys can handle a bike is amazing. I'm still trying to learn from them even after riding with them for the past several years.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I think the emphasis should be on skill development rather than categorizing into roadie/triathlete. It's easy to get by for years without consciously working on bike handling skills if one is always riding solo. How many people actually attend bike handling classes and clinics and work on group riding? I don't agree with the mentality that a triathlete doesn't need to worry about pack skills because they only time trial. Inevitably, one is going to find themselves in a situation where they are in a group of cyclists be it in transition at a tri or at the annual fundraiser century ride.
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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While I agree that riding with roadies will be good for one's bike handling, obviously one is not going to be able to ride in their aerobars in that setting. For newbies who have trouble handling the bike while in the aero position, is there anything besides lots of solo practice miles that helps?

_______________________________________________
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Re: read any of the tri-newbie posts lately... [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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of the people "over there" that posted thier weekly totals for last week, 17 posted milage for the bike (not hours). average milage for the 17 people = 89 miles last week. looks like thier getting some experience considerering it's still winter in alot of places.
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