oh good god this is gonna get nuts...fasten your seatbelt.

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http://www.pbmcoaching.com
USA Triathlon Level 3 Elite Coach
USA Cycling Level 1 Elite Coach

I would choose the PM, but mainly *I* would just STFU and train more...

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Jorge Martinez
Head Coach - Sports Science
E3 Training Solutions, LLC
@CoachJorgeM

Why the PM? I was also thinking the powercranks would allow me to get a better workout on less time, in addition to possibly helping my running at the same time.

lol, what I was thinking.




*we now return you to your regular scheduled flaming*

I'm hoping we can avoid that and get some useful info/opinions.

ok, get the powercranks.

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http://www.pbmcoaching.com
USA Triathlon Level 3 Elite Coach
USA Cycling Level 1 Elite Coach

Really? How?

trolling? Or did someone pay you to put this up?

Power meter dude. There is no other high techy tool that you can put on your bike that will make you faster... FASTER.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Allthough I have never used either, nor plan to, It seems to me that there is more support for a powermeter on ST.

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Mike

I'm trying to decide what to get, if either. Not trying to stir anything up.
Thanks for hte input.

This has been "discussed" a few times before . . . You might want to wade through the threads for some other ideas.

But since we're already here: I'd go with a power meter for the following reasons:
1. They help you fully understand and make changes to your training, on a daily, weekly, monthly and yearly basis. Until you use one, you don't really know exactly how much work you're doing, or in many cases, not doing. It will help you get better and it will help you get better at the specific task you want, i.e. riding a bike in a triathlon.
2. Not only does a power meter allow you to train more effectively, it will also be a benefit to you on race day as you can use the power meter in the race to best implement your pacing goals.

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Jason
Dig It Triathlon and Multisport
http://www.digittri.com

Well, it's hard to know what to believe of what you read, but I thought that 1. if I can actually utilize my upstroke better, it would provide training benefit I wouldn't get otherwise, and 2. some training benefit to my running at the same time.
In re-reading that phrase I wrote, it sounds like something from an infomercial. Didn't mean it that way.

I'd forget about both and just move your cleats back to your arches. If you're dead set on spending money though, pick up some side mount pedals.

Great, thanks. I hadn't really thought of the racing/pacing aspect.

Huh - Why's that?

I'd forget about both and just move your cleats back to your arches.[/reply]

You should just get Newtons

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

1. if I can actually utilize my upstroke better, it would provide training benefit I wouldn't get otherwise,
Your hip flexors are tiny... your quads are huge. Tell me how the back side of the pedal stroke is going to add anything to the power of the downstroke?

and 2. some training benefit to my running at the same time.
I feel this has validity but can be solved by doing this... running more and doing drills and plyos.

Go get the powermeter... heck... I deal in Powertaps. Let me know if you're interested. :)

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

:-)

Don't forget the Q-rings!

No problem. It's an interesting concept, and it does have that "hey, this just might work" appeal that you also see in infomercials. The thing is, powercranks have never actually been shown to work. There are a bunch of people, many on here, who swear by them, but it's worth noting that no one has ever been able to find the people who have made the improvements claimed in their literature.
In any case I vote for the powermeter. An excellent, objective training tool. Helps you quantify your workload/current effort/improvement in a way that no other tool really can.

Well, I don't think we want to start a powercranks debate - but, the psoas is a major muscle. Exactly how significant a contribution the others make, I can't say. But I don't think you can say the hip flexors are tiny.
THanks for the input.

Here is the question you should be asking yourself.

For all the things I want to do is there an alternative and is the alternative as good or nearly as good. Regarding PowerMeters, they are not essential to training or racing well. People like Mercx and LeMond, Scott and Allen all raced pretty well before the advent of powermeters or HR monitors or anything else, based upon perceived exertion and paying attention to everyone else. Also, you probably have a speedometer right now and that is the most important number anyone needs, although that change can be measured with just a watch over a measured course. Power meters do give some useful extra information (and you can send the data to your coach if you have one) but, even now, many top pros do not race with them. If the information you get distracts you from the task then they can be counter productive. So, is there an alternative to the PM. Yes. Is it as good? Probably, and if not as good, then it is close. And, will a pm help your running? Probably not.

PowerCranks, is there an alternative? Yes, several but none are particularly good ones compared to PC's. One legged pedaling trains the muscles but not the two legged coordination and it takes twice as much time to train all the muscles since you can only do one leg at a time. Fixed gear biking is pretty good, but if you don't have a fixed gear you are going to have to buy one and few are going to race on a fixed gear. And, will PC's help your running? Probably, based upon the reports of many. You won't know for you unless you try.

And, then ask yourself this last question. Can you get a powermeter with a 3 month moneyback guarantee? Probably not. So, if you get that and it isn't quite as good as you thought it was going to be you are stuck. If you get the PC's and they don't live up to your expectation send them back and get a powermeter.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Power not so is helpful not for providing an absolute number but in relative (I always ride at x) and progressive numbers (go from x to x + 10% of x, etc.) If you are always training in the same environment, same route, etc., you can do this without a power meter - just use a watch or a more constant measurement of MPH and you can accomplish the same thing.

PCs seem to work for me, both on the bike and the run. It is hard to divorce the effect of PCs from the training effect because I am still on left part of the curve where the slope is still kinda sleep. It's kind of a leap of faith.

Ideally you would get both. Perhaps get one and then the other over time. Or maybe used. There is a large secondary market for both.

One is an indispensable tool for racing and training that gives you immediate, real-time feedback on your actual exertion levels, allowing you to train and race in a strategic and informed way.

The other is a product with questionable scientific backing that may or may not improve certain muscular development which may or may not in turn improve your riding.

You guess which is which...

In all seriousness, the number of flippant responses is based on the fact that this question seems so absolutely far-fetched that most people don't believe you are serious. A powermeter is absolutely the most valuable investment you can make in your cycling. Powercranks are the source of 200+ post debates about how 1) people should pedal and 2) how they actually pedal. Virtually every person who on this forum who owns a powermeter (and uses it as something more than just a "fancy data collection instrument") can give quantifiable proof about the improvement it has made in their training, because a powermeter is how you actually measure improvement. On the other hand, even people who own both a powermeter and powercranks have had a hard time showing that powercranks have helped them make any improvement at all in their cycling. The proof just isn't there. They may work (though some, like Dr. Coggan, believe that they physically cannot), but if they do, there is no direct proof. Then again, if you plan only using a powermeter as a fancy data collection instrument, you are probably best to save your money and buy neither, and instead hire a good coach.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

yeah but one has a 90 day return policy as a prime selling point :-)