potential time savings for a more proper fit ;)

Jun 21, 19 11:49

Post #1 of 20 (2767 views)

I had an initial fit with my Tri bike when new 5 years ago. Turns out it wasn't great but I didn't know at the time what a more aero position looked like or really it wasn't something I was thinking about. It wasn't until I learned a bit more and then started getting in over 3+ hour rides for IM training that stuff started hurting on the bike. So at that point I went to a new bike fitter. That bike fitter resolved all of the pain issues I was having. Saddle soreness. hotspots on feet. lower back stiffness. all were fixed. At the time, I was really focused on comfort for the IM leg and was fine with a less aggressive position. So my question is, would it be worth it to have another fitting done with the focus on getting a more aero position? I know my head is a bit too high for sure. I just don't know timewise, how much time I would save in an IM with a more aero position. I'm not shooting for IM podiums but everybody loves to shave off time. any suggestions? and I'm in a new city so I'd be going to a new fitter which is fine as I've seen some recommendations here on ST on where to go.

https://vimeo.com/343757972/2ad068b424

Update: I had a guru bike fit today which I felt was super helpful. There were obvious things to him which he pointed out before I even got on the bike. Then watching me ride my bike on the trainer it was even more clear to him some things that needed changing. Then went through lots of changes on the guru bike.

Had to leave my bike to have all the adjustments to it made. But feel good about all the changes being made. Can’t wait to get the bike back to take it out for a ride.

Last edited by: mickison: Jul 9, 19 14:11

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 11:55

Post #2 of 20 (2750 views)

Can you post a video of your current position?

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 11:58

Post #3 of 20 (2742 views)

Everyone would need pictures of you on your bike in your current position to eyeball your aeroness and answer your question. Thus far the answer is: some, none, a lot, or maybe slower.

Ever do any aero field testing (see platapus thread)? That would give you something more akin to an objective measure of where you are on the "aero spectrum". Ie, how aero are you today.

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 12:09

Post #4 of 20 (2722 views)

I don't have one currently. maybe I'll try to get one this weekend. I only have some race photos and those are almost always from the front and for whatever reason I tend to sit up when I see the camera people. I don't know if I see that as a good time to take a break or whatever.

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 15:54

Post #5 of 20 (2601 views)

https://vimeo.com/343757972/2ad068b424

not in my normal cycling gear but just wanted to do a quick video for an idea of my position.

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 16:46

Post #6 of 20 (2561 views)

Where are you located?

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 17:05

Post #7 of 20 (2549 views)

Atlanta

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 17:36

Post #8 of 20 (2511 views)

I tested a more upright position - by about 3/4" and my avg heart rate was up a bit, but my average km/hr dropped by 1.5km/hr on what should have been a stellar day. In other words it was a lot.

But I have a hard time with vision - next race I know the road so bars are coming down.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 17:40

Post #9 of 20 (2507 views)

http://www.aeroweenie.com/calc.html

The difference between a .24 and a .29 CdA is about 18 minutes for a rider averaging 180 watts over 180k distance.

I have no idea what your specific numbers would be but I guessing 18 minutes is not too far from reality.

"They know f_ck-all over at Slowtwitch"
- Lionel Sanders

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [Fuller] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 17:49

Post #10 of 20 (2498 views)

Cool. I hadn’t seen that calculator before. I don’t know what sort of savings I’d potentially have. But nobody likes giving away time.

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 21:27

Post #11 of 20 (2355 views)

Well that isn’t a great looking position. It is hard to tell with the baggy clothes, but it looks like you are supporting too much of your weight on the elbow pads, so you are kind of “running” on the bike. My guess would be the first change would be to pull the seat back a bit. All that weight on the elbows probably widens your shoulders, which is the last thing you want.

I worked aero testing a friend, who looks about your size, and we got him down to ~0.205 without a super low position. A fit from someone with a decent eye for aerodynamics would probably make you a ton faster at the same wattage

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 22:17

Post #12 of 20 (2336 views)

mickison wrote:

Cool. I hadn’t seen that calculator before. I don’t know what sort of savings I’d potentially have. But nobody likes giving away time.

In before Eric tells you to stop using the word “aggressive” when describing bike fit.

Not a fitter but would agree with the above poster that several minutes (ie more than 10) would not be unreasonable.

Maurice

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 23:17

Post #13 of 20 (2313 views)

Thanks for the input. I’ll probably just bite the bullet and schedule an appt for a fitting. I know if at least one fitter in my area that I’ve seen ST recommend in the forums

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 23:18

Post #14 of 20 (2311 views)

mauricemaher wrote:

mickison wrote:

Cool. I hadn’t seen that calculator before. I don’t know what sort of savings I’d potentially have. But nobody likes giving away time.

In before Eric tells you to stop using the word “aggressive” when describing bike fit.

Not a fitter but would agree with the above poster that several minutes (ie more than 10) would not be unreasonable.

Maurice

I’ll just use the word “better” fit. :)

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 21, 19 23:41

Post #15 of 20 (2305 views)

What is the function of the towel on the far side of your bike? Just behind the bottom bracket in the video

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 19 2:40

Post #16 of 20 (2233 views)

Ha! The important questions. It’s to wipe the chain or if swapping my PM pedals to between bikes so just a cleaning rag

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 19 5:02

Post #17 of 20 (2160 views)

grumpier.mike wrote:

Well that isn’t a great looking position. It is hard to tell with the baggy clothes, but it looks like you are supporting too much of your weight on the elbow pads, so you are kind of “running” on the bike. My guess would be the first change would be to pull the seat back a bit. All that weight on the elbows probably widens your shoulders, which is the last thing you want.

I worked aero testing a friend, who looks about your size, and we got him down to ~0.205 without a super low position. A fit from someone with a decent eye for aerodynamics would probably make you a ton faster at the same wattage

I second this. Seat is too far forward. I would probably move it back 5cm, which would require some lowering of the saddle as well. Then see what else is needed. Some tilt of the aerobars is likely a good idea, as is adding a bit of reach so that you can really relax your upper body and still get some support from the bars. Vertical upper arms often cause tension in neck and shoulders.

This would probably increase comfort and aerodynamics.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 19 6:31

Post #18 of 20 (2110 views)

can we please stop saying aggressive? There is no such thing. There is only "proper" TT positions.

Your current position is not "un-aggressive", it's just plain wrong. You don't even have a bike fit yet to improve from. Go see a reputable fitter.

Eric

mickison wrote:

I had an initial fit with my Tri bike when new 5 years ago. Turns out it wasn't great but I didn't know at the time what a more aero position looked like or really it wasn't something I was thinking about. It wasn't until I learned a bit more and then started getting in over 3+ hour rides for IM training that stuff started hurting on the bike. So at that point I went to a new bike fitter. That bike fitter resolved all of the pain issues I was having. Saddle soreness. hotspots on feet. lower back stiffness. all were fixed. At the time, I was really focused on comfort for the IM leg and was fine with a less aggressive position. So my question is, would it be worth it to have another fitting done with the focus on getting a more aero position? I know my head is a bit too high for sure. I just don't know timewise, how much time I would save in an IM with a more aero position. I'm not shooting for IM podiums but everybody loves to shave off time. any suggestions? and I'm in a new city so I'd be going to a new fitter which is fine as I've seen some recommendations here on ST on where to go.

https://vimeo.com/343757972/2ad068b424

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 19 7:18

Post #19 of 20 (2086 views)

Thanks. Yes. I’m scheduling with a reputable bike fitter in the coming weeks.

Re: potential time savings for a more aggressive position on bike? [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Jun 22, 19 7:39

Post #20 of 20 (2066 views)

Excellent. Talk about what your doing and why you’re trying to do it so you gain understanding as to what a proper TT fit is and feels like.

Eric

mickison wrote:

Thanks. Yes. I’m scheduling with a reputable bike fitter in the coming weeks.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

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