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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
I did this on Tuesday and almost barfed:

200's. Start on 4:00, and every time you finish one, take off 15s rest. So the first one is on 4:00, second one on 3:45 etc. When you realize you wont make the next one, bump down to 150m, so initially you will get some rest, but every time you touch the wall you're still knocking off 15s. Do 150m's until you wont make your pace time again, then bump down to 100's. Keep going all the way through 50's and 25's. It's not fun.
when you bump down the distance do you start on 4min again? Or do you for instance start the 100s on 2min?
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [TriNewbieZA] [ In reply to ]
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No, you keep the off time going down from 4:00 down to 15 seconds. There will be 16 repeats total.

e.g.
200 @ 4:00
200 @ 3:45
200 @ 3:30
200@ 3:15
200 @ 3:00
200 @ 2:45
150 @ 2:30
150 @ 2:15
150 @ 2:00
100 @ 1:45
100 @ 1:30
100 @ 1:15
50 @ 1:00
50 @ :45
25 @ :30
25 @ :15

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Yesterday I did:

10x400@6:30
Seriously a great set. avg rest: 22s

Tomorrow:
6x300
8x200
10x100
Descending, all on 1:40 base I believe.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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1 x 100 on 1:30. Quick and Efficient!
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jkp07] [ In reply to ]
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Coach loved 10x400IM on around 5:00 during college. Once a year at training trip and the last couple were basically a blur. That was brutal. My favorite was out test sets growing up though, back in the age-group swimming days.

6 x 50 all out (off the block if available) on about 3:00. Plenty of rest but if you aren't shaking after this one you are doing something wrong.

Only way to get faster is to be able to swim fast. haha.
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
No, you keep the off time going down from 4:00 down to 15 seconds. There will be 16 repeats total.

e.g.
200 @ 4:00
200 @ 3:45
200 @ 3:30
200@ 3:15
200 @ 3:00
200 @ 2:45
150 @ 2:30
150 @ 2:15
150 @ 2:00
100 @ 1:45
100 @ 1:30
100 @ 1:15
50 @ 1:00
50 @ :45
25 @ :30
25 @ :15
ok great. makes sense. I was thinking "25 @4:00....that sounds like way to much rest" ...my guess is I'll be wishing I had that kind of rest when I give this set a go
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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i only had 3 workout in my tool box. Doing them for 6 weeks in a row get me back to front pack swimming. I m boring, i keep doing the same thing over and over for years...

15X100m on 1:30 hold best average

8X400m on 5:20 hold best average

10X200m on 2:45 hold best average

Repeat over and over for 6-9 years until your in the front pack!

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Interval on 100's set at time that gives you about 8 - 10 seconds rest.

5 x 100
200 pull - long and smooth
10 x 100
200 pull - long and smooth
15 x 100
200 pull - long and smooth
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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My favorite depends on what I want to accomplish but my favorite that specifically works towards IM:

500 warm-up (mostly free, some back, some breast)
500 kick/drill (doesn't matter if it's broken into 50s, 75s, 100s)

Then climb the ladder:
100 on 1:30
200 on 1:30
300 on 1:30
400 on 1:30
500 on 1:30
500 on 1:25
400 on 1:25
300 on 1:25
200 on 1:25
100 on 1:25

I typically just get out but I should probably cooldown.
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
i only had 3 workout in my tool box. Doing them for 6 weeks in a row get me back to front pack swimming. I m boring, i keep doing the same thing over and over for years...

15X100m on 1:30 hold best average

8X400m on 5:20 hold best average

10X200m on 2:45 hold best average

Repeat over and over for 6-9 years until your in the front pack!

I'm assuming LCM?


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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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short course meters.

when fit....

100s in 1:10-12

200s in 2:22-25

400s in 4:50 finishing in low 4:4X

i eliminated all sprint work also ....focus entirely on diesel engine approach with no waste of energy sprinting

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiosity, what is your oly swim time?
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jkp07] [ In reply to ]
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i havent race olympic distance in years and i m not in great shape anymore.

when in good shape doing those set, i would put it at around 2nd pack at the world cup series and front pack at any ironman or 70.3

i was doing long distance exclusively in the second part of my career so that s why i cut on all sprint and swam long stuff....48-50min at ironman,

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
i only had 3 workout in my tool box. Doing them for 6 weeks in a row get me back to front pack swimming. I m boring, i keep doing the same thing over and over for years...

15X100m on 1:30 hold best average

8X400m on 5:20 hold best average

10X200m on 2:45 hold best average

Repeat over and over for 6-9 years until your in the front pack!

So how much rest between sets?

Joking aside, that is pretty low volume. I would pretty much double those sets, but swim them sligthly slower of course. Or do 10x200 first, then cruise a 400 and then do 15x100. Is it your opinion that it is unnecessary? I feel that time in the water is very important for a new-isch swimmer like me. Or did you do these workouts daily? Then it will still be about ~20k/week counting in warmup and cd and decent volume.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [mortysct] [ In reply to ]
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it really depend of your level as swimmers, time available and distnace your focusing on.

personnally, 2000m of main set for a ironman athlete is a decent amount. add warm up, cool down, and easy stuff and the volume is decent.

I have swim with the national training center for year and we swam 7-9 times a week 5-7km.... so i have been through this. But my biggest improvement happen when i simplified the training, repetition of my staple swim sets and keep the swim quality VERY high.

but i agree with you, if you are a newish swimmer....you need to get the volume in, there is no way around this

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
I did this on Tuesday and almost barfed:

200's. Start on 4:00, and every time you finish one, take off 15s rest. So the first one is on 4:00, second one on 3:45 etc. When you realize you wont make the next one, bump down to 150m, so initially you will get some rest, but every time you touch the wall you're still knocking off 15s. Do 150m's until you wont make your pace time again, then bump down to 100's. Keep going all the way through 50's and 25's. It's not fun.

I liked the look of this one, did it today at lunch. That was the entire workout other than 100 warmdown at the end,

first 4 200's were easy swim, 200 kick, 200 pull, 200 pull. after that all freestyle.

I was on the cusp of making the cutoff for the 200 on 2:30, so I switched to 150's there.

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
But my biggest improvement happen when i simplified the training, repetition of my staple swim sets and keep the swim quality VERY high.

I think this is good wisdom. Could you define "swim quality" (for you), and how quality swimming differs from any other type of swimming?
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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[disclaimer ex swimmer]
my fave sets these days [humble masters swimmer at the local Y] looks like:

[short course yards]
8x100 on 1:30
try to come in around 1:15--1:20

I also enjoy
6x100 [IM] on 1:40
trying to come in around 1:25--1:30

*I'm only about 2 months 'back' into swimming [2x a week], have always been an occasional surfer [~1x/week] which possibly gives me some kind of a base [also ex-college sprint freestyer]
*I historically struggle w/distance and have decided to A.G. compete in 50s/100s again moving forward.

//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

Last edited by: Freddo: Jun 13, 14 15:09
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be okay with listing a few sets I think are helpful, but when I see requests for things like this it reminds me of what a Russian-born American coach (who used to train with Vladimir Salnikov) once told a room of 200 American swim coaches at USA Swimming conference I attended. Paraphrasing, because that was 1996:

'Americans are always looking for a magic set. Was it this many 200s or that many 50s that made such-and-such break the world record? Can we explain Alexander Popov by the to-do list of things on the chalkboard?'

I think the answer is no. Execution is far more critical than the checklist of things you put in front of yourself. This is why I find the workouts sent to most triathletes through their Training Peaks coaches to be almost useless. They tend to be a list of things to do with almost no direction on how to execute, what to prioritize, and often fail to explain the coach-speak hieroglyphics. I could insert one of my mostly triathlete-centered practice sessions here and would probably be shouted out of the room for using up too much digital space. It is extremely hard to commit to paper both the specific tasks, the key points of execution and the clarity of terms/expectations.

Having said that, here is the warm up to our April 17 practice:
Warm Up: Active Streamlining
3 x 200 (or 175/150/125) on 3:15 send off
Objective is to manage ONE great streamlining skill per swim. Eliminating drag is critical to advancing through water, as it increases speed while reducing workload. Win-win. And it merely requires smart choices rather than inordinate fitness. We will focus on "wave drag,' the active drag created by your movements, vs "form drag," the passive resistance generated by the shape of your body. Movements that create turbulence disturb the water, channeling your energy into 'pushing water around' rather than slicing through it. The waves you create contain energy--YOUR energy. Don't give it to them.
1 = Maintain neutral head while face down / Hide lower goggle lens while breathing. A consistently low head position supports front to back balance and improves alignment. The goal is to maintain horizontal stability and minimize up and down movements.
2 = Experiment with "wide tracks," the X axis coordinates at peak extension. That typically means wrists forward of the shoulder. Narrow tracks (or midline or crossover) can induce fishtailing or lateral sway. We want a clean, longitudinal axis from head to toe, preferably one that is horizontally level.
3 = Reduce the size / range of your kicking actions, particularly when using a 2-beat kick. Within the 2-beat kick pattern there should exist a moment of near-perfectly streamlined legs. Picture 'toe flicks' vs leg kicks. Can we find the sweet spot where you maximize the benefit of the kick movement at the lowest drag cost?
6 x 50 Free, Increase tempo with each swim. You may want to do that organically rather than tinkering with the tempo trainer. The drag penalty is amplified at higher speeds, which is why it takes so much more energy to swim a little faster (and why gas mileage suffers at high speeds.) Can you retain a "drag reducing" focus as you increase stroke rate?

i could have just written "3 x 200 on 3:15, focus on streamlining" but I think the explanation and guidance that follows (the wordy stuff) is the difference between effective and unfocused practice. I email these out to my swimmers ahead of time and am happy to field their questions should my coach-speak not connect.

I would be more interested in WHY those who are submitting have selected these sets, and what they (or their athletes) hoped to gain from them.
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [StrokeDoctor] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a short video with me swimming next to a new student. I think it does a decent job contrasting turbulent vs low drag swimming. It was definitely a challenge to swim that slowly, and I'm not particularly fast to begin with. The warm up listed in my previous post was designed to get my swimmers thinking in these terms. Rather than using the first 15 minutes of practice to 'get their muscles warm,' how about setting their brains/bodies into problem solving mode?

https://www.facebook.com/...9603660058&saved

And I apologize if I ambushed this thread, as I clearly have not contributed what was asked for.
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [StrokeDoctor] [ In reply to ]
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I don't believe in magic sets. That's why this is a "favorite" set thread, not a "perfect" set thread! There are a ton of ways to achieve a goal, and most important is effort and technique, but at the same time it's nice to do different arrangements of work just to stave off boredom.

There are only so many times I can do 10x100 on 1:45 or 1:30 without going mental.

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [StrokeDoctor] [ In reply to ]
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StrokeDoctor wrote:
I'd be okay with listing a few sets I think are helpful, but when I see requests for things like this it reminds me of what a Russian-born American coach (who used to train with Vladimir Salnikov) once told a room of 200 American swim coaches at USA Swimming conference I attended. Paraphrasing, because that was 1996:

'Americans are always looking for a magic set. Was it this many 200s or that many 50s that made such-and-such break the world record? Can we explain Alexander Popov by the to-do list of things on the chalkboard?'

I think the answer is no. Execution is far more critical than the checklist of things you put in front of yourself. This is why I find the workouts sent to most triathletes through their Training Peaks coaches to be almost useless. They tend to be a list of things to do with almost no direction on how to execute, what to prioritize, and often fail to explain the coach-speak hieroglyphics. I could insert one of my mostly triathlete-centered practice sessions here and would probably be shouted out of the room for using up too much digital space. It is extremely hard to commit to paper both the specific tasks, the key points of execution and the clarity of terms/expectations.

Having said that, here is the warm up to our April 17 practice:
Warm Up: Active Streamlining
3 x 200 (or 175/150/125) on 3:15 send off
Objective is to manage ONE great streamlining skill per swim. Eliminating drag is critical to advancing through water, as it increases speed while reducing workload. Win-win. And it merely requires smart choices rather than inordinate fitness. We will focus on "wave drag,' the active drag created by your movements, vs "form drag," the passive resistance generated by the shape of your body. Movements that create turbulence disturb the water, channeling your energy into 'pushing water around' rather than slicing through it. The waves you create contain energy--YOUR energy. Don't give it to them.
1 = Maintain neutral head while face down / Hide lower goggle lens while breathing. A consistently low head position supports front to back balance and improves alignment. The goal is to maintain horizontal stability and minimize up and down movements.
2 = Experiment with "wide tracks," the X axis coordinates at peak extension. That typically means wrists forward of the shoulder. Narrow tracks (or midline or crossover) can induce fishtailing or lateral sway. We want a clean, longitudinal axis from head to toe, preferably one that is horizontally level.
3 = Reduce the size / range of your kicking actions, particularly when using a 2-beat kick. Within the 2-beat kick pattern there should exist a moment of near-perfectly streamlined legs. Picture 'toe flicks' vs leg kicks. Can we find the sweet spot where you maximize the benefit of the kick movement at the lowest drag cost?
6 x 50 Free, Increase tempo with each swim. You may want to do that organically rather than tinkering with the tempo trainer. The drag penalty is amplified at higher speeds, which is why it takes so much more energy to swim a little faster (and why gas mileage suffers at high speeds.) Can you retain a "drag reducing" focus as you increase stroke rate?

i could have just written "3 x 200 on 3:15, focus on streamlining" but I think the explanation and guidance that follows (the wordy stuff) is the difference between effective and unfocused practice. I email these out to my swimmers ahead of time and am happy to field their questions should my coach-speak not connect.

I would be more interested in WHY those who are submitting have selected these sets, and what they (or their athletes) hoped to gain from them.

"This is a friendly place to share your faves, either yours or others you see that you like the idea of. Not the whole workout, just the main set"

The quote above is from the OP and explains what he was looking for...peoples "faves", with no mention at all about wanting any magic bullet workout. Most posters appear to have understand exactly what he was after and delivered the goods, as requested.
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
I did this on Tuesday and almost barfed:

200's. Start on 4:00, and every time you finish one, take off 15s rest. So the first one is on 4:00, second one on 3:45 etc. When you realize you wont make the next one, bump down to 150m, so initially you will get some rest, but every time you touch the wall you're still knocking off 15s. Do 150m's until you wont make your pace time again, then bump down to 100's. Keep going all the way through 50's and 25's. It's not fun.


I liked the look of this one, did it today at lunch. That was the entire workout other than 100 warmdown at the end,

first 4 200's were easy swim, 200 kick, 200 pull, 200 pull. after that all freestyle.

I was on the cusp of making the cutoff for the 200 on 2:30, so I switched to 150's there.

Good on ya! I only made it to 2:45, and even on that it was pretty much touch and go right in to the first 150.
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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I did the same as you then. I did the 200 @ 2:45, came in at 2:32, so I switched to 150 @ 2:30.

I'll probably do this set again next week, and really go for that sub 2:30 200.

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: post your favorite main sets please. (swimming) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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For points:

500/400/300/200/100 on 1:20 per 100, with 4x50 on 1:00 between each. Short course yards.

One point for making the interval, plus one point for each :10 under (so for the 500, 6:40->1pt, 6:30->2pts, 6:00->5pts)

Did it this morning: 5:58 (5 points), 4:44 (4 points), 3:30 (4 points), 2:19 (3 points), 1:06 (2 points), for 18 points.

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