post kona reflections (chime in please)

Oct 19, 03 9:18

Post #1 of 22 (4794 views)

First: Congratulations to Peter Reid and Lori Bowden on a terrific fight to take the wins.

Let me see if I get this straight. Chris McCormack bad mouths Reid and Deboom last year for riding like girls. And this was after he DNFed b/c the going was too tough. This year, surprise, surprise, he comes into HI running his loud mouth again. He stays with Reid and Deboom on the bike the whole day and then fades on the run. Looks like he underestimated Hawaii again and underestimated his competition. Oh, and he got beat by a bunch of girls, too. I do, however, give him credit for at least finishing this time.

What's up with Steve Larson? I read two different reports about his DNF. One said he was running a fever. I can then understand his DNF. The other, however, said he was saving himself for Xterra. If that is the case, why is he even there. He's just taking a slot from someone else. I just don't get his training either. He doesn't focus enough on his swim and hardly does any running. His bike is solid, and no doubt he uses that to his advantage. But it seems he is giving up too much time on the swim in races, working too hard on the bike to catch up, and then can't run. He's a great athlete, just wish he would train for triathlon instead of bike racing.

I know a couple of people here gave props to Luke Bell in the predicting threads. And I know he won Eagleman, taking first over Deboom. But I just didn't see him doing well in HI, the biggest of the big races. He proved me wrong. That guy is fierce for his age and has a bright future ahead of him.

Deboom DNF's. I was shocked, to say the least. I remember reading an article about the year he took third place in HI (or might have been second, not sure) in a tri magazine. Apparently he got kicked in the head so hard in the swim that he had a concussion. He still raced the whole day and got a podium spot, to boot. He was puking his guts out after the race and passed out in a port-a-pottie. So, I would assume that something was very wrong in order for him to drop out yesterday. Can't imagine he would give up b/c he was getting beaten.

Had a feeling that the Canadian runners would overtake Badmann, if they could just hang a little better with her on the bike. Badmann, like Larson, gives up too much time on the swim, and can't match strides with the runners.

Looked like conditions were pretty good yesterday. Hence, the fast time.

Last thought: John Collins's (founder of IM) son raced yesterday. Doubt he qualified for a spot. You think he won a lottery spot? Doubt that, too.

___________________________
And the road gets rocky along the way
But if it gets too smooth, it's time to call it a day
-Kinks

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 13:55

Post #2 of 22 (4691 views)

I've never been a huge Reid fan, but I like what I've seen with his comeback. Smart yet aggressive racing!

I'm pretty neutral with DeBoom, too, but even he won points with me today with the way he raced. I'm bummed he didn't finish and hope he comes back strong!

I love Luc van Lierde, but clearly this guy has got to figure some things out. I can't believe he was talking about qualifying for the Olympics at the press conference before Ironman. I keep waiting for him to learn his lesson. I think he could win Hawaii at 85% of his peak fitness. Instead, he spends all his time battling injuries.

I like the excitement that Macca brings to the sport, but he absolutely should not do any more talking about what he is going to do (someday) in Hawaii. By the way, does anyone know what happened to him, anyway?

How did Beke hold off Brown? One minute the live reports have Brown passing Beke; the next minute, Beke is crossing the line for 2nd, Brown is several minutes back.

Great races from Zack, Hellrigel, and Widoff -- nice to see some veterans in the mix.

I'm surprised Chauband (sp?) and Galindez weren't nearer the front.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [toj] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 14:11

Post #3 of 22 (4677 views)

In Reply To:

I like the excitement that Macca brings to the sport, but he absolutely should not do any more talking about what he is going to do (someday) in Hawaii. By the way, does anyone know what happened to him, anyway? Lots of walking. I think it started about 10-12 miles into the marathon.

How did Beke hold off Brown? One minute the live reports have Brown passing Beke; the next minute, Beke is crossing the line for 2nd, Brown is several minutes back. In the post-race interview he said he fell apart the last 5k.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 16:37

Post #4 of 22 (4583 views)

Well my pre-race predictions were pretty far off. I thought the bikers would take it this year, at long last. Alas, everyone seemed to be waiting for Larsen and when he didn't fly by there was no plan B.

That said, I don't think the bikers could have gotten away from Reid this year. Peter looked like the "old Peter" out there: methodical, steady, calculating. He looked great at the finish and probably could have gone a couple of minutes faster if he had been pressed. DeBoom also looked pretty good until his hamstring started bothering him (or whatever his injury is) and probably could have chased down on the run any breakaway bikers, this year at least, to finish second behind Reid. I don't think DeBoom or anyone else could have beat Reid this year, he was "on."

LvL: like I said, made of glass.

Beke: who? where'd he come from? Will not doubt be duking it out with Luke Bell in the years to come.

Zack should have snuck off with Stadler on the bike. The pack would have let him escape and he probably could have run nearly the same marathon split with a four minute head start on the pack. I am nostalgic for the krazy kraut bikers of years past! Nice to see Zack finish near the front in any event.

It's becoming obvious that if you want to win in Kona, that's got to be your entire season. You can't race Ironmans in, say, Australia and Germany, and expect to be able to dig deep again in October. Maybe one other IM during the year and don't peak for it and don't kill yourself during the race. The guys who race a lot generally under-performed yesterday and the guys who patiently pointed all year towards Kona were more likely to race at their potential.

I hope Larsen recovers from whatever he was suffering from yesterday and races Xterra next weekend in Maui.

And I hope McCormack, despite his on-course joking, stays with IM but races less and focuses on Kona. I want to see someone hammer the bike course big time and win the race someday... And given the drafting benefits from the (legal) pack riding, it will likely have to be a small group escaping and hamming down the Queen K.

Where is the post-race interview with Cameron Brown that I saw referred to elsewhere?

William Hein

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 17:26

Post #5 of 22 (4527 views)

>>Last thought: John Collins's (founder of IM) son raced yesterday. Doubt he qualified for a spot. You think he won a lottery spot? Doubt that, too. <<

And your point is?????

There were quite a few people who were racing yesterday who didn't qualify or win a lottery spot. That's the way it is.

clm in kona

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 17:33

Post #6 of 22 (4523 views)

"Looks like he underestimated Hawaii again and underestimated his competition."

there are three physiologies. sprint, IM and kona. leder and macca have IM, but not Kona, at least they haven't demonstrated it yet. but in OZ, or germany, a race like that, i think leder and macca are easily the equal of anybody in the world.

"What's up with Steve Larson?"

kona is his ENTIRE focus. however, if you know it's not going to happen during the race, and you do it for money, smart to stop and get ready for maui, florida, or whatever is next.

"Can't imagine he would give up b/c he was getting beaten."

it's not uncommon for pros to go until they pass out, or get right up to that point. deboom was at that point.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 18:46

Post #7 of 22 (4446 views)

I honestly never knew Kona was Larson's entire focus. If that's the case, why doesn't he work more on his swimming and running?

What happended to Deboom yesterday? I head it was his hamstring, but that wouldn't translate to passing out.

___________________________
And the road gets rocky along the way
But if it gets too smooth, it's time to call it a day
-Kinks

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 19:02

Post #8 of 22 (4432 views)

First thought I had was this was the first race in a long time that was really a race. Nothing was decided until the very end. The typical year it is 30 minutes before 10 people enter T2. Yesterday, 15 had entered within 5 minutes of each other and 12 came in together. I am not sure why C Brown lost so much in the early part of the run to all those he came in with then picked them all off, except for two guys.

Word I received from the guy who picked up Steve on the course was Steve picked up the flu from one of his kids about 2-3 days before the race. He was hoping he could get through it and went ahead and started. He apparently was trying to hold 300 watts on the bike and did so for about half the bike, then the watts they just started dropping and he knew it was all over. I think he dropped out at about mile 85. He was apparently really bummed as it was his focus all year.

Don't know what the internet was like for those of you really on the internet but we were supposedly watching the same as everyone and I thought it was every bit as good as the live feed we got of the TDF on OLN, without the commercials. If you don't have high speed internet access now you will be a fool to not get it by next year's race. It was the best improvement I saw. Watching Nina trying to hold off Lori was really fun. I was glued to the screen.

The weather (wind) was the best in years although I understand it came up pretty hard for some of the slower bikers. I was hot though. If it had been overcast (as it was today) the times would have been much faster I am sure.

I heard the Hoyt's were injured on the bike and taken to hospital. Not sure what happened but we were surmising That it was a high wind trailer stability problem as Ricky was in a trailer this year, not on the front of the bike.

And, Marc Herrmann's is amazing. Most normal people would not attempt this on less than 2 years training, let alone a quad. WOW!

Frank

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [williamhein] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 19:35

Post #9 of 22 (4404 views)

In Reply To:

Where is the post-race interview with Cameron Brown that I saw referred to elsewhere? It was an interview he did w/ Welchy a few minutes after finishing. You had to be watching the live coverage to catch it.

What I saw [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 03 22:40

Post #10 of 22 (4310 views)

It is really sad, but we were standing at the 4mi run turn around on Alii Drive and getting race updates from a person in Chicago online . Thats how cool communications are getting. Another neat thing is you can buy a DVD with generic race coverage and every time you trip a chip pad you are in the movie for a few seconds. Nice to show the folks at home.
Peter Reid and Laurie B both went thru looking scary strong. Natasha and Nina looked pretty good, but all around us agreed Laurie looked to be the player at that point.
The swim looked pretty smooth, we went up to Hawi on the bike course and it was as flat of day as I have ever seen up there. The vog was nonexistant and Maui across the way was clear like in the olden days (pre 83) when the vog started. Some midpackers said the wind showed up about 30-40 mi from home, but no tales of unplanned trips to the curb.
The run was a bit humid but not Africa hot in town, pretty darn hot to the energy lab, and fairly cool after dark. Not sure why but the moon cycle wasn't full this year and it was real dark out of town at night.
The expo was pretty good at the semi new location and has room to grow. Got to see Frank and the powercranks. His booth had some sweet looking pre production carbon cranks.(not for PC) at a cost of a cool Grand. Ouch.
The Zipp boys had some really really cool roadie wheels the 202 model. If you want light and smooth those are the ticket. I think the folks with high wind discomfort and steering problems could get one of those and a 404 rear and have a nice rig. Last note, it doesn't hurt as much to watch, but you get pretty tired anyway. But no nice medals for watching. Aloha G

Re: What I saw [G-man] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 5:04

Post #11 of 22 (4190 views)

Zipp 202...??????????

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 6:36

Post #12 of 22 (4089 views)

is there anyone else you want to take pot shots at......? How is McCormack's trash talking any different than your little post race diatribe? These guys train their asses off, and put everything on the line, give them a little more respect please.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Mark C] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 6:59

Post #13 of 22 (4043 views)

Seems I gave a lot of those guys respect. I'll give McCormack his when he stops discrediting the winners and stops making excuses.

___________________________
And the road gets rocky along the way
But if it gets too smooth, it's time to call it a day
-Kinks

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 9:04

Post #14 of 22 (3853 views)

Couldn't agree with you more w/ regards to your comments on McCormack. Macca is a witch on (most) courses. But he hasn't proved ANYTHING in Hawaii. I love the guys attitude and approach to racing. He makes for a great interview and it's always an interesting read when he goes off about what he's "going to do." I like that confident (read: cocky) attitude. It gives you someone to root for/against (depending on how you look at that type of personality). At the end of the day, these guys don't give a crap what we write on this forum. The fact that we even talk about them gives them the attention and buzz that they crave. I won't make too many negative comments about any of these guys b/c they all could shread me any day of any race, but if you talk the talk, you better walk the walk.

On a side note: Congratulations to all the racers from the Great Lakes State. I tracked along for most of the day and they seemed to perform very well. (I know some will be disappointed, but it's not from the lack of training, effort or support.) See you all next year at the races.

BTW: The 25th Anniversary show on ESPN2 was weak. Anyone else think so?

-bz

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 9:38

Post #15 of 22 (3797 views)

"there are three physiologies. sprint, IM and kona."

What do you think are the differences between the three types of athletes?

Joel

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 9:42

Post #16 of 22 (3794 views)

Just to clear-up what seem to be some brewing misconceptions about Steve's race and his training. He certainly did not drop out to save himself for Maui; Kona was THE race for him. Because it was his focus, he had spent at least the last three months training specifically for Kona. Without going into specifics, during that time he put concerted effort into all three triathlon disciplines - not just his bike - as well as his nutrition, all at the intensity and duration necessary for an IM. Indeed, that very training enabled him to come second at the Xterra US Champs, but also probably kept him from winning, because he was simply not training to run a fast 10K, but rather a strong marathon.

However, as he would be the first to say, when you are racing an IM, getting the line healthy is the real battle. As with all of the elites, he was so fit coming to Kona that he was particularly susceptible to getting sick. And get sick he did. He was hoping that it would stay in his head until after the race, but it pretty much went systemic by Saturday. His swim was steady and even though he came out at about the same time as two years ago, he did so with less effort and without swallowing half of the Pacific. If he had ended up in the 54 minute pack, he could have swum there, but as it was he was in the 56 minute pack, so he swam there. His bike went well for 56 miles (he went through halfway in 2:10) but then the switch was thrown and his legs shut down. Once he started loosing time to the peleton, he knew the day was over.

While I think that he hopes to race next weekend, as of Saturday, he was in no condition to do so. Hopefully, with a couple days of rest, he will be back on his feet and able to put together a solid effort in Maui. I am personally hoping that he will do Florida, because if he can use his pre-Kona training to even a fraction of its potential, he will be a contender there. Anyway, that is the LarsEn report for today, October 20.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 10:18

Post #17 of 22 (3722 views)

I had an interesting conversation with a top coach a while ago about Ironman Hawaii and why it is that, relativly speaking, the same people who keep doing well/winning there year after year - the pro/elite race and in the age-group race. It's the conditions - they are extreme. The heat, the humidy and the winds some years, are over-the-top and not everyone does well in these sorts of conditions. This coach surmised that if the WTC ever decided to move their World Championship( A likly preposterous proposition) to another locale with more moderate conditions, the results may be very different . . but then it wouldn't be Ironman Hawaii. The extreme conditions are what the race is all about.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 13:56

Post #18 of 22 (3498 views)

How would you compare the conditions Saturday in HI to this year's IM Couer d'Alene and IMMOO? I know it can be windy but I find it hard to believe it can be hotter than the west and midwest.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [haennp] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 16:02

Post #19 of 22 (3400 views)

Yeah Good stuff with the anti-Macca fan club. I guess that the PC attitude should be live in a cave, say nothing to non-one about your race predictions, then go out do your thing and if you win mouth some stereotypical PR prepared sponsor friendly crap about how great everyone was on the day etc etc. Take your hand off it. Bottom line is Macca gave it his shot and it wasn't his day. At least he races consistently throughout the season with a full schedule and doesn't lock himself away a la de Boom for 1 day in October. So you have made the point that he DIDN'T WIN (we have all worked that out by now). How about taking your hob nailed boots off. Stop kicking the guy. In my view he adds great colour to the spot and is a good bloke to boot. My 2cs.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Gris] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 17:32

Post #20 of 22 (3336 views)

Don't be too offended at we Americans, Gris. We not only LOVE smack talk, we love to HATE it too! After all, we own the two biggest smack-talk fests in the world with the Super Bowl and NBA Finals. You could throw in NCAA bowl games and March Madness to boot and not be too far off either. And we love to jeer at the losers, unless, of course, its our team. The bigger the talk, the more we jeer. In the land of pulling oneself up by the bootstrap, its quite ironic how we make great sport of those that fail in their quests.

I say good on Macca for finishing the day. I'm sure it matters not one lick to him about the monday-morning-quarterback thrashing he's taking for his confident opinions. I, for one, haven't seen him walk counter to his talk yet.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 03 17:44

Post #21 of 22 (3322 views)

No offense taken, just putting a contrary view. BTW went to USA vs Scotland at the Rugby World Cup last night (barracked for the USA). We love the underdog Downunder. They played in front of a packed house of almost 48,000 in Brisbane. Your boys did themselves great credit and showed tremendous commitment and courage in the face of a skilled opponent. Their valiant loss did their country proud.

Re: post kona reflections (chime in please) [Gris] [ In reply to ]

Oct 21, 03 13:19

Post #22 of 22 (3125 views)

Quote:

At least he races consistently throughout the season with a full schedule and doesn't lock himself away a la de Boom for 1 day in October.

Deboom races more than just in October. He won the CA half IM and Wildflower. Took second at Eagleman and won the Teva Vail Half Marathon in July.

Even with not winning IMH, he Deboom had a great season still I beleive.

Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)

"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman

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