they used it in cda and wisconsin, so my guess is that it will stick in florida. looked terrible to me. when i saw the lead pack coming back from the turnaround they were all over eachother. also problematic is the fact that they never told age groupers that the pros had different rules. i can only imagine how some age group men reacted when pro women were planted on the left hand side. although i knew of the rule, it still was kind of a pain to ride with pro guys who had a different set of rules to follow.

brent

This rule looks lousy to me. Exhibit A is the pack of 12 or so top competitors that all finished at the same time. No Exhibit B is needed.

So tell me, if pros can ride side by side, how does one pass two such pros riding together? That whole bike ride looked like a loose pelton.

Of course, it makes for better TV, so I am wagering we are stuck with it.

My guess is if SL had blasted through that group of 12 at mile 60 or so they would not have come in as a group of 12. It turned into a tactical race when the gap to the leader was felt to be easily manageable by most of the runners. If that gap had been 10-15 minutes though, you can be sure at least some of them would have gone harder.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I didn't like it at all. Hopefully enough of the pros will complain about it to do away w/it. I think the rule was put into effect to aid the pro women in navigating the age group men but it certainly had an effect on the way the front of the race unfolded.

From insidetriathlon.com:

12:12 p.m. Well with 10 miles to go, we still have a huge group of riders in pursuit of Stadler. It's unusual to have this many riders still together at this point and it's clear that the new "stagger" rule has allowed a loose form of drafting at some points.

Indeed, Chris Lieto just looked over at our car and told Lance Watson "I guess this stagger rule didn't really work too well, did it?"

OK
I referee two or more pro rules races each year [Wildflower runs under these rules every year]

the pros are familiar with them

for age groupers: ignore the pros: as far as you are concerned they are not there [unless they are riding to the far right then pass them like you would an age grouper] If a pro is out riding by the centerline [which they are allowed to do] you may pass him/her riding where you should be> which is over to the far right. Age groupers will have normal drafting rules apply. pros will be dinged for drafting age groupers and vice versa.

The referees assigned to the pro waves and to the front of the age groupers are very good at what they do and will watch for the interactions between pros and age groupers, it really is two races being run at the same time.

By the way the "Pro Rules" were drawn up by the Pro's not by USAT. If the pros' don't like them they are the only ones with the power to change them

eric

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"on your Left"

to the best of my knowledge it is applied to all USAT no draft pro races... I found it suprising that this was the first time they'd used it in Kona...

wasn't applied at IM Florida 2002.

As I understand it, the intent is to avoid those situations where athletes try to exploit the "borderline" and hang 3.01 bike-lengths behind. This way, they have to be to the side also, which should help eliminate any draft advantage.

I recall some athlete (perhaps Tissink?) saying after CdA that he thought that thanks to the new rule, there was nobody getting a draft advantage, and this was the first Ironman he was in where he thought this was the case.

this does not work...
if you are 2m on the side and only two meters back,
then, you are (according to the new rule) not drafting.
However, you really are...
the new rule is not 2m on the side + 10m behind, it is 2m on the side, period.

I am not sure if Raynard said that, but the guy who thinks that nobody is getting a draft advantage with this, is probably a long time wheel sucker!

I talked with Olaf Sabatschus who thought too the rule was BS. I guess you can ask Holzner too...isn't too happy about this rule..

I think the stagger rule for the pros is a good idea, but this bit about not having to be 10 meters or even 7 meters back is just terrible. Everyone but Stadler finished in the pack at Kona for a reason, and it wasn't for want of company on the lonely lava fields.

one way to make sure there is no drafting and women pros are ok is to have a pro wave 30' before the AG and have the drafting zone being
3m on both sides and 10m back. (20m like in cycling would be even better as then, the borderline case does not apply).

until they decide to do this, some pros that are not good swimmers but good bikers, will be penalized, some pros that are good swimmers and weak bikers will be given a free ride.

wishful thinking however...I am already dreading
the vision of a front pack in Florida, using this new rule...

I see you are registered for Florida, Francois. Best of luck. I hope this one is your best yet.

yep. thanks. as Olaf said, I'll do my own race...
if I start getting pissed at drafters, this is going to be a long day! :-)

1. It seems to me that with the staggering rule, that everything-old-is-new-again as I seem to recall this is the way it was back in the 80's. As long as you were not riding directly behind anyone for an extended period of time it was OK. Side by side or off to the side but slightly behind was fine.

2. Not sure how having 10 - 15 of the leaders coming in together is LESS exciting. I would think the contrary - it's MORE exciting and dramatic. The honest truth is that Ironman races can be fairly boring affairs to watch for anyone other than those who know what's going on and know the sport. Typical commentary: "Reid's got a 3 minute lead on DeBoom" an Hour Later - " Reid's still got a 2 minute lead on DeBoom" !!

3. This is going to cause a considerable amount of confusion particularly for the pro women and top age-group men in mass start races because now there will be two sets of rules in place for people sharing the same road. It's already a challenging situation for both parties for two reasons: 1) The slower swimming pro-women getting caught up in all the traffic and 2) The single file, no blocking, with minimal riding on the left, no drafting rules are asking top age-group men to do something that at times is physically impossible to do ( a result of too many people on too small a road in too short a period of time)

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

To paraphrase:

"I, for one, welcome our new IM runner overlords. "

Man uses term from another board on slowtwitch - hilarity ensues.