new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most?

Aug 31, 03 6:59

Post #1 of 15 (3095 views)

Here comes a long question, probably with no real answer, but I'm having trouble figuring things out on my own so I thought I'd ask the forum and get some general opinions (dangerous I know <grin>). Here's my situation:

I currently have a road bike (raleigh r700) that I've been riding for 2 years. I think it's a nice bike, especially for what I paid for it, and I've been using it for group and solo rides. In general, I tend to split my time during the week about 50/50 between group rides and solo training. I've also done the bike leg in several tri relays on it. For the 2004 season, I want to start doing some full tri's on my own. So, with that in mind, I've been thinking about a new bike. At first I was considering the cervelo soloist. It seems to be a pretty good fit for what I'm trying to do; road rides, training and conversion to a TT/Tri position. I was thinking about buying a frameset and moving my ultegra groupo from my current bike to it. However, the price difference between a soloist frameset and a complete dual is only $100. Therefore, I've started considering leaving the r700 alone and adding a Dual to my stable. So, here's my army of questions:

1. Would you rather have one machine that you do group rides, train on and race tris on, or would you rather have a bike dedicated to each purpose.

2. If you are one of those guys/gals that has a separate road and TT bike, which do you find that you use most?

3. Because I'm 5'7" w/ shorty legs, I'll probably be on a 48cm frame. In the Dual that means 650c wheels vs. the 700c that I'm currently on. That doesn't really concern me because I'm more worried about fit. Should the wheel size bother me for some reason?

4. General comments anyone?

Thanks so much!

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 8:16

Post #2 of 15 (3088 views)

1. Definitely two bikes (if not more). Need to have drop bars for group rides, at least with the roadies I ride with and TT bars are much faster for tri. You'll like having the option. Also, then you don't beat up your race bike with training rides.

2. I use my TT bike (P3) for all racing and solo rides. Road bike for group rides and most trainer rides.

3. It kind of bothers me. I have 650 TT and 700 road. Same situation. I have a H3 front and Renn Disc 650 for racing and nice set of training wheels that came with my TT bike. I have an old set of Heliums I ride on my road bike which I love but would also like to have another set of race wheels in 700. So the bother comes from the cost of purchasing multiple sets of wheels...

4. Go with two bikes even though they are different size. You won't regret it (but your checkbook will!). You'll be much faster next year with a tri-specific bike, IMO. Get a good fit!

Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 10:46

Post #3 of 15 (3068 views)

Agree. Keep the road bike for group rides and EZ days. Invest in your TT/Tri bike and race with it. I have both and use the road bike most in off-season and occasional group rides. Switch primarily to TT bike during last build and peak weeks before races.

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 15:11

Post #4 of 15 (3034 views)

1. Are you kidding? One can never have enough bikes!
Road and TT in my house. Track bike on the "next to buy" list.

2. I ride them probably equally, but that depends on the time of year.

3. I'm in the same boat--650s on the TT bike and 700s on the road bike. The double tube/wheel thing is a pain, but I'm still working on the motor and haven't shelled out for race wheels.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 15:29

Post #5 of 15 (3020 views)

I have four bikes. One is a dedicated tri bike, another is my aluminium road bike for fast group rides/hill climbs, my soon to be upgraded classic steel road bike for centuries and long rides and a hybrid for winter/trail riding. Too answer your question, I ride my road bikes much more often.

It's best to have a dedicated road bike and dedicated tri bike. However, if I was going to have only one bike as dual purpose road/tri bike, it's hard to beat the Cervelo Soloist.

Are you sure at 5'7", even with short legs a 48 cm is best? I'd guess you're more likely to fit a 51 cm better. Make sure you get a professional opinion on sizing before purchasing. I suspect your torso is too long for 48 cm. My wife is 5'4" and rides a 48 cm P2K and a 51 cm road bike and she is long legged/short torso.

The Dual is a great tri bike for the money, but if you don't already have a decent road bike do consider that the Soloist Team is about the same price.

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 15:31

Post #6 of 15 (3019 views)

"The Dual is a great tri bike for the money, but if you don't already have a decent road bike do consider that the Soloist Team is about the same price."

Sorry, I meant to say the Soloist 105 is about the same price.

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 16:16

Post #7 of 15 (3004 views)

Keep your Raleigh as is. Buy as good a dedicated TT bike as you can afford. Ride the road bike most of the time, but get on the TT bike once a week when you are going to go fast...TT bikes and slow riding equals discomfort...they aren't very comfortable to poke around on, at least when compared to a road bike, i.e., all recovery rides are road bike rides, and all TT bike rides are fairly quick rides. I've even warmed up on my road bike, done some fast work on my TT bike, and returned to the road bike for a cool-down...but, that was an exception when my usual training rides had been interrupted by my real life.

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 16:30

Post #8 of 15 (3000 views)

[quote]Are you sure at 5'7", even with short legs a 48 cm is best? I'd guess you're more likely to fit a 51 cm better. Make sure you get a professional opinion on sizing before purchasing. I suspect your torso is too long for 48 cm. My wife is 5'4" and rides a 48 cm P2K and a 51 cm road bike and she is long legged/short torso
[/quote]

From poking around at a lot of online calculators, I was pretty sure that I'd need a 51cm frame too. I dropped into InsideOut Sports in Cary, NC last week and we took some measurements and consulted cervelo frame specs. It looked like the 53c top tube on the 51cm frame soloist would be too long for me (looking at setting it up for a roadie postion). When considering the dual too, you can have the seatpost in one of two positions. Needless to say, I'm more confused than ever about what size bike I should be riding.

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Aug 31, 03 18:33

Post #9 of 15 (2975 views)

If you are short legged and long torso it would seem that a longer top tube would be in order? I would certainly have another look at this. Also effective top tube length is variable with stem length. Just avoid the short/long extremes. A lot also depends on your low back and hamstring flexibility in determining effective top tube lenght.

The Cervelo site specifically states that their tri bikes are generally sized to what you would ride in a road bike.

The traditional way to find your theoretical frame size is measure your inseam and then multiply by .67. Try it for yourself with an assistant and work from there. Explained quite well here http://www.coloradocyclist.com/BikeFit/index.cfm

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Sep 1, 03 8:13

Post #10 of 15 (2910 views)

I have a different take than many of the above posts. If you are going to make triathlon your main focus then you should be riding in the aero position most of the time. At races you see a lot of guys sitting up on the hoods when they should be aero. Giving away lots of time. This is probably because they are not used to being in the bars for long stretches. I have a road bike and TT bike too but during the season almost exclusively ride the TT bike because it is MORE comfortable in the aero position. I even use it in group rides with roadies. Us tri guys seem to do the majority of pulling in those situations anyway. I use my road bike for pre season work and for rain rides only. If you are competing in an IM or 1/2 IM you want to be in those bars for very long stretches. If you don't do this in training it will be hard to do on race day. Also this mantra of not taking a TT bike on a group ride is baloney. I am one of 2 guys in my area who ride our tri bikes all the time with the roadies and we have never had a problem. Its the rider, not the bike.

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [slick] [ In reply to ]

Sep 1, 03 8:23

Post #11 of 15 (2900 views)

My thoughts exactly.

As much time on the tri bike as you can.

I am 5'4" with short legs and ride a 48cm Felt. It seems that carchaser should be riding a 51 or so.

jaretj

(This message sent with 100% recycled kilobytes)

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [slick] [ In reply to ]

Sep 1, 03 9:54

Post #12 of 15 (2883 views)

You are correct on several counts. It is the rider, not the bike, that makes it safe enough to ride on group rides on a TT bike (although triathletes aren't known for being a great group of bike handlers). And, the TT'ers DO pull more than the roadies (what's up with that lukewarm 30 second pull...get out there for 5 minutes at a time and crank up the speed, or...nevermind, just let me show you what I mean!). And, some people are more comfortable on TT setups than road setups...one of my riding buddies is that way. Finally, WAY too many people are seen in races riding on the brake hoods because they can't stay down in the aero position for that long, that's a waste of energy and speed.

Still, I'd keep the road bike and get a dedicated TT bike...then decide which one to ride the most. My neck hurts when I ride the TT bike a lot, that's been my limiting factor...I did find the Briko "upside-down" glasses help that problem though...no upper frame to obstruct my vision, so I don't have to crane my neck back so far to see when in the aero position.

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [carchaser] [ In reply to ]

Sep 1, 03 10:32

Post #13 of 15 (2870 views)

I�m with Slick and Jaretj. Way back in the 80�s I was racing triathlons on a Kestrel KM40 and training on a 700c Schwinn Circuit. (I had broken my supposed �all-around� Kestrel 200EMS, so was reluctant to use the KM40 outside of race day.)

The Schwinn was a battleship�steady, heavy and indestructible. Race days on the KM40 brought mixed blessing. It was exciting to be on a tight, 18 lb machine, but I found myself leaving time in the corners and descents for fear of exceeding the unfamiliar handling envelope.

It got me to thinking�wouldn�t it be wonderful to have one bike that weighed 18 lb on race day, 19 lb with training wheels, was indestructible and cost no more than the two bikes I was fielding. My wife and limited garage space were easily sold on that last point. Back surgery to fix a disk ruptured in a TT put one more thing on my wish list: comfort. Fifteen years later this list has taken form in the TitanFlex.

I also agree with the notion that your optimum fit is a function of your flexibility. As it improves over time, you�ll want a longer top tube (cockpit) for a more aerodynamic TT position. Back and hamstring flexibility are a major focus of our triathlon program here at UCSD. Power production, comfort and drag reduction are the three factors we work on optimizing.

The small 650c TitanFlex frame�s top tube can be adjusted from 53-48 cm, which corresponds to a seat tube angle range of 75-81 degrees. The LOOK Ergostem (standard groupo component) enables an incredible range of handlebar positions to suit your current flexibility and/or riding company. Set up with STI or Ergopower levers and clip-on bars you�ll be ready for anything!

Cheers,

Tom Piszkin
UCSD Triathlon Coach
@TitanFlexBikes
(619)334-7222
(619)328-1870 FAX

Last edited by: TitanFlex: Sep 1, 03 13:48

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [slick] [ In reply to ]

Sep 1, 03 15:06

Post #14 of 15 (2820 views)

"Also this mantra of not taking a TT bike on a group ride is baloney.....Its the rider, not the bike."

Personally, I wouldn't want anybody other than a TDF quality rider riding a few inches off my rear wheel on aerobars on a steep angle bike. None of the the tri-geeks in our roadie group bring our tri bikes to the group ride. We may have aero bars, but there is a rule in our group that nobody rides on them unless pulling or are trying to catch up after being dropped.

Our group has had two incidents in which a crash occured including one that caused injury to my wife. Both were caused by - you guessed it, tri-geeks.

The problem with many triathletes is because they can be fast they mistakenly think that they're good riders. Some of the riders in our group are previous or current road racers. Their bike handling skills are quite a cut above. I've learned more from riding with these roadies on my road bike than I ever would training solo on my tri bike.

Maybe if you ride in a flat, strait area and don't ride too close together, but otherwise, IMO, a tri bike is not a good choice for group riding

Re: new bike, TT or Road? What do you use most? [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]

Sep 1, 03 16:44

Post #15 of 15 (2797 views)

Oh, I agree 100%, riding inches from a back wheel on a TT bike is a big mistake...even if you aren't in the aerobars. They just don't handle as quickly as needed with that extra weight out front. Also, we never get in the aerobars unless we're pulling (or chasing!).

But you hit on another point that was mentioned...trigeeks aren't known for being great bike handlers. I'm not comfortable around anyone until I know their riding habits...no matter what kind of bike they are riding. One way I "size up" a bike handler's skills and comfort in a group (after the obvious watching to see if they can ride in a straight line), is to ride up beside them and touch their hip lightly...if they move a few inches away without looking alarmed, I'm relatively certain they've been in good tight formations and are comfortable with such...if they jump or swerve or snap their head around, I know to avoid being behind them any time during the ride.

Still, a road bike is the bike of choice in a group if you have that option, no question.

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

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