When I learned how to turn 30-some years ago, I learned the basic movement in about 20 minutes, IIRC. we took out part of one practice to learn them. I was reasonably proficient, meaning that I could do an entire practice without missing the wall or hitting my heels on deck, after about 3-4 months.

I spent 5 years before I was "good" at them, meaning that I wasn't losing time to my peers in races.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Not to disuade you from learning flip-turns...but, it will take a while (more than a weekend) in order to be good enough to do them so that the watch detects them consistently---you still need the hard push-off to trigger the G-sensor. You will probably miss more flip-turns (turning too soon, turning too late, lopsided, too deep, etc) than your watch is currently missing your walls...for a while.

I have a garmin (not a Polar), but I used to have issues with it missing walls on open turns. What has worked for me is simply getting more proficient at open turns. I try and lose as little time as possible to the flippers. I swim hard to the wall, touch with my non-breathing side hand, recover my breathing side arm and touch (both hands on pool edge), pull legs in, squat and push-off hard into my "best" streamline.

I use walls as a chance to work on streamlines, and breakouts...just as a skill to have. So, I'm sure to push off hard, so that I have some "speed" to work with and preserve as far as possible. Since I started making that effort, my Garmin hasn't missed a length.

Again, I'm not saying "don't bother with flip turns". I'm just saying it won't be a miracle solution after 30 minutes in the shallow end of the pool. If the only reason you have ANY interest is for your watch...there are probably better ways to solve that problem.

I took a 1.5 hour flip turn clinic put on by a local swim coach. I had attempted a few before but had given up on them. The clinic gave me enough to start working them into my workouts. I took about a month to work them in, starting with doing them in warm up sets. It took a while to do them under hard efforts (100m fast sets etc). and my technique still gets really sloppy when I'm tired.

General progression of the clinic:
-stand in shallow end and perform complete "roll"
-float stationary on stomach, and initiate complete roll
-float stationary on stomach, and initiate half roll, to finish facing "up"
-float stationary on stomach, with fingertips touching wall, half roll, plant feet.
-put it all together moving slowly.

Also, watch some youtube videos!

FWIW, my garmin 935 is very consistent with picking up turns, whether I do open or flip. I think a strong push is the key though.

I don't have that watch but I would think it can handle either, because not all sets are freestyle.

Yeah, that's the only time I've had issues with it counting, once in a while it registers an extra length when i switch strokes, usually mid-length

Yeah, it’s got about one or two more chances while the return window is still open. Customer service has been less than stellar. If I can’t get it to work this weekend I don’t care how much money I saved and how good Flow is I’ll be getting the 935.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

After 4 years in the sport, I decided I needed to learn. It took me a good 6 months to really master them but it has paid off for many years now. After listening to useless advice from all the masters swimmers in my pool, I was able to self-teach using the very basic, Go Swim series on Youtube.

Lesson 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFQpLyihI5M
Lesson 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryN-4R1E8d8
Lesson 3 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHXNBbLFiJs
Lesson 4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNQh2SqA2Ck
Lesson 5 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss6-htcF9mA

I thought that was a good tutorial with a logical progression. I have started practicing a bit just to break up my swim sets.

Dude. Lighten up on Polar. At least until you figure out if its you or the watch. Apparently they gave you a deal (according to your post up top), and have given you suggestions for how to get it to work more reliably.

If you really think Polar Customer Service is giving you the shaft, then be specific. But all this veiled, non-specific, "...less than stellar" crap comes off wrong.

As was mentioned above, it was pretty easy. This is coming from a guy who started swimming @ 2:20/100 and had very little swimming ability. After swimming for about 2 months, I decided I _needed_ to learn how to flip turn. Seemed important at the time?

I actually learned almost all of my swimming from Youtube, how to breath, how to perform all the mechanics of the stroke, and ultimately how to flip turn. I put into practice what I learned, and in about 20 minutes the first day, and 10 minutes the second day, I was doing flip turns on most of my lengths of the pool. Within a few weeks, I would do them regularly. I essentially started with the following progression.

1) Stand and attempt a flip
2) Take a step forward towards the wall and flip (but not touching the wall)
3) Swim and then flip (not touching the wall)
4) Swim and then flip, attempting to push off the wall
5) Flip turn success!

After all that, I've stopped flip turning. I actually prefer not to anymore, because I do a lot of sets with paddles and PB, and I don't really like to flip turn with paddles on. So I just find it easier to never flip turn. I suppose I just need to learn to flip turn with paddles on, and then it would all be second nature too.

Good luck, it's really not that difficult to learn if you put your mind to it.

Ok, more specific. I’ve sent two emails neither of which were answered, factory reset my watch twice, called and told to hit the wall harder by a guy whom I honestly couldn’t understand over a thick accent, sent a message to Facebook that also said hit the wall harder.

As far as returning goes my window closes March 28th and it’s March 13th. Unless all facets of the watch work by lets say March 20th I’ll have to go in another direction.

However other than the swim problem (which is a dealbreaker) I actually like the watch. It’s good looking and I enjoy Polar Flow. I’m also not keen on dropping Garmin money... so I’m tip toeing that line between admitting defeat and returning what I thought was an amazing deal or getting it figured out and enjoying a lot of features at a low price.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExLqw_SlBlI

Won't take long to learn it but will take some time to master it so you might lose a second or two on you usual interval times.

My revelation came when I realized you don't flip and rotate to end up pushing off with your face point toward the bottom of the pool. You push off on your back with your face pointing to the ceiling and that makes it so much easier. I was trying to flip and rotate all at the same time and it was a mess.

You made me spit my coffee all over the keyboard with that one. I've been swimming since I was 7, so about 51 years, in high school, college, the Navy, and Masters, and I still screw them up once in a while, usually when I'm "taking it easy" for whatever reason. I'm not alone in that respect with the Master's group. We all blow it once in a while, usually at the most unexpected time.

As for learning them, done even marginally correct will get you several seconds per 100, even on the very best open turn.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I think I was 53/54 when I decided I would learn this. At that age, it wasn't an easy thing to learn. I started by devoting 10 mins at the end of every practice to flip turns. Eventually, I started putting them into the warm-up and practicing some more at the end. After a few months of that, I started trying them during the main set(s). But flip-turning in the middle of a hard set when I wanted an extra breathe on an open turn was the hardest. It took another several months to master. I'm glad I did it.

The first half of my first year on swim team (pre-meets), I would never flip in the deep end, only in the shallow. Then, I would dive down and basically do a handspring off the bottom of the pool and spring my legs into the wall. Looking back, that was probably more complicated than the actual flip. I stopped doing it when the guys started mocking.

Note: Learning how to flip is not that complicated. Mastering the flip to the point where not flipping feels wrong might take more time. For me, that time was about 6 years of competitive swimming. So be a patient padawan. Once it fully clicks, it's really pretty nice.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Def learn the flip turn. It makes the swim a lot more like unbroken swimming for the typical AGer, which is better for training (and faster). I'd say for the typical AGer like me, it's a noticeable improvement in swim training quality ; it's not just some useless trick that looks cool.

The advice above was all great; two additional very helpful tips that really clinched it for me -

1. Accelerate into the wall to flip turn. This feels very counterintuitive for folks learning to flip turn, as you'll be afraid to crash into the wall or lose control due to the added speed. Trust me - I've never once crashed my head into the wall by doing this, and I'm no expert. The added speed coming into the wall dramatically eases the difficulty of the flip. I wasted a few weeks before I saw this tip somewhere, as I was slowing down to prepare for the flip turn, which makes the flip really clumsy and hard.

2. You may have to swim a bit less hard during the rest of the length compared to your open turn pace. Your net pace will still end up faster with the flip turn, and it'll feel just as hard over the long run since the O2 debt will get you. But you won't be able to hammer the length, then spend 1 second recovering at the wall as you might be doing on an open turn. I revisited this recently when I cranked my neck and couldn't flip turn as a result - I noticed I was feeling punchier and less O2 deprived on the swim lengths but my overall time was still slower due to the wasted 1sec per wall touch.

Admission.
I was a competitive swimmer, but not in Freestyle. So never developed a good long flip turn.
So I say, that (except for a pool race), there is little value in a flip turn in open water competition.

While many will tell you it will gain you seconds in 100m times, the reality is stil the samel, there's no flip turns in open water.
Most people I have practiced with in club swimming end up doing short turns when they do flip, which ends up being just as slow as an open turn.
Unless you can also change sides of a lane at will, as any club swimmer can, your flip turn will be a nuisance in a shared lane.
If your 100'm are not under 1:30 doing or not doing a flip isn't your problem.

My Garmin is quite happy catching the turn. But I cheat and set mine to walk, so that it shows HR.
Because if you are doing a set workout, you already know how far you went.

But if you must learn, take this into account. Most people who learn to flip late in life, do really short turns because they have bad breath control.
It's the discipline to go into oxygen debt and come off the wall long with a dolphin kick that makes it work.
If you aren't beyond the foul rope when you surface, it was a waste if time.
Good luck.

You neglect the reality that for most mopish age groupers who are the ones who are usually debating to learn flip turns or not, they tend to over rest at the walls during their open turns when sets get hard. Even a 0.5 sec delay at each wall touch adds up to 2 sec per 100 of added rest, which is a big deal when you are at your limits.

Flip turns force you to not over rest at the walls when it gets hard. This is the most important thing for the typical age grouper who is used to open turns.

If you're a ffop swimmer in triathlon, you don't need to learn to flip! For everyone else, I'd say it's a required skill.

I disagree on the advantage over the "very best" open turn. My 100fly masters PB is 3.4 seconds slower than my 100free PB in the same time period (same meet, actually). A good open turn is still pretty fast, just not as fast as a flip.

I don't think I've "blown" a turn (as in completely miss, go into the wrong lane, or hit my heels on the deck) in a really long time. It's been years, in fact. I do have more difficulty at one of the pools that I sometimes swim at, depending on where the bulkhead is set up the T might be too far from the wall, throwing off my timing a bit, so I have to consciously remember to put in an extra stroke at that end of the pool. But I don't swim there much, so it's rarely an issue.

Now that I think about it, I've screwed up more open turns in competition than I have flip turns in the last 5 years.

That's not to say that all my turns are perfect. Far from it. Occasionally I'll "forget" that I have to turn until I see the wall un my peripheral vision, then it's an ugly dive with my head almost touching the wall. I can still execute it fine, it's just not as nice and smooth as I like.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I see a lot of people on here defending open turns as just as fast. I usually dismiss that as a misdirection from people that can't tumble to start with trying to justify why there is no reason to learn. Coming from you makes it a different discussion, considering your background.

I haven't done an open turn in competition since high school. I also did the butterfly. In that situation everyone is doing the same turn so there is no reference for what is fast, slow, or indifferent. I was basing my open vs tumble difference on what I see at masters. The newbies are usually swimming in the lane next to my group and as a general rule, if we are even at the wall, I'm nearly a full body length ahead on my first breath after the turn, most of the time more than that. Do that 3 times and there is a big time savings. All of those guys and gals are doing open turns. Flip turners are in the next lane up.

As for blowing the turn, I may have not used that term correctly. In the group that I swim in you tumble under the guy behind you off the wall - you move to the center of the lane, flip off the wall, and then while on your back underwater you go under the guy behind you and come up with the lane marker on your near right. So that is probably a much more complicated turn than what is being discussed in this thread. Doing that I have ended up under the lane marker, on the wrong side of the lane marker, and more than once I've miss-timed the turn itself and not contacted the wall in the right position, either too tight or too loose. That causes a problem getting under the next swimmer and out of the way.

I supposed if "mastering the flip turn" means in the lane by yourself then you could get good enough in a few months, but you probably aren't going to be ready for the 6 in the same fast lane masters swim, at least not here :)

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Yeah, I usually have to deal with the same dynamic at masters. The tri-club, not so much, there are only a couple of others who do flip turns. Most guys are doing poor open turns. I'm gaining on every wall regardless of what turn I'm doing (open, flip, open turn with a kickboard, whatever).

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I always find it a little funny when people argue “no walls in open water so flip turning is useless.” Well, you don’t stop every 25 yards and switch directions 180 degrees either. So the question is which will make one a better swimmer? Just my .02 but flip turns are the answer. It helps continuity, it helps streamlining and body position, it helps pacing, it helps breath control, and allows you to swim with faster folks in faster lanes to generally get faster.

Flip turn it don’t, it doesn’t really matter. I know fast swimmers that don’t or can’t flip turn. If someone doesn’t want to or doesn’t like them no biggie. But the argument that “they’ don’t help OW swimming” is a bit of a cop out IMO

(Not directed at OP other than to say I think it’s worth the relatively minimal time investment required)

I avoid anything "triathlon centric" as much as I can. I swim with the masters, I ride with the bike club, and I run with the running club. There are a few other multi-sporters in each of those groups, but they aren't the "triathlon club" events that my wife likes to go to. If you want to be fast you have to train with the people who are fast, and those people are usually single sporters.

When I swim I'm wearing competition goggles and a swim cap. No watch - just my medical alert bracelet.

When I bike I'm riding a road bike, wearing a road kit, a standard helmet, and a 520 bike computer

When I run its nylon shorts and a technical top and cap. My watch is a 910 with the quick release, the only "tell" in the lot.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"