Check your DM. 😄

I use Elite HRV, not ithlete, but the Polar H10 works great for me. Zero drama. I tried the CorSense finger sensor, but ended up returning it.

I use Elite HRV with a scorche rhythm 24 with no issues. It’s a 2 min. reading each morning.

Hi! I use HRV 4 training, but have found also that readings often are inconsistent. What do you think of it? I take 3 minute readings every morning

I used to have exactly the same issues, using my index finger with the sensor.
Once I changed to using ring finger, I started getting readings first time, every time.
May be something to do with “pressure” with the index finger being bigger than ring finger?

Mike

Have been using EliteHRV more recently due to having increasing problems with ithlete. Neither have been flawless yet it seems EliteHRV may be giving more consistent readings. I have tried finger sensor and countless number of chest straps but most recently have used the Polar H10 strap and have gotten good results so far (just started using about 1 week ago). Using EliteHRV and a 1 minute test, it has not taken more than 2 trys. Ithlete and the Polar starp has been “better” but on occasion still requires 3 – 4 attempts.
I never do more than 1 minute test b/c if it fails after 3 minutes it’s a drag to spend that time on a “re-do”. So …… can keep you posted on the Polar H10 chest strap but that has seemed to correct much of the connectivity problem. Now just need to decide which APP is going to be the most stable / best fit. They both seem very reasonable and data plentiful.

I wouldn't trust optical HR for anything related to HRV, which requires precise measurement of each interbeat interval. Its probably better the closer you get to your core...so, a schosch on the upper arm or something. But, its still likely to be loaded with "random noise" from the basic bluntness in a optical "pulse" (and software trying to "find the true peak"), as opposed to the sharp peaks in an electrically measured QRS-wave. There's enough variation in an electrically based HRV already.

You bring up a good point to make sure the monitor works with the program. My guess is it is not medical quality and I know I am no expert in this, but using the scorche 24 on the upper arm has been giving me good results with the Elite HRV program (it says signal quality is good, zero artifacts have been detected and corrected). There is a list of compatible and non-compatible monitors along with a statement to ask the manufacturer some questions if it is not on the list, which I did since it isn’t on the list. I would like to see if anyone has done a detailed comparison of these compatible HRM’s working with the program and specifically rule out ones that don’t meet the criteria.

Polar H10 and EliteHRV and I'm on a streak of 124 days with ZERO issues.

The data corresponds very well with how I'm feeling, training, sleeping, eating and living. I have enough data now that I can be a little more proactive and avoid beating myself up too much with ineffective training on a tired body.

That was NOT my point. My point is that ANY optical HRM is likely to produce a much less valuable HRV measurement. The way optical measures your pulse just isn't precise enough to be able to repeatedly measure the time between successive heart beats.

I spent months tracking HR daily using a chest strap. Even using a good strap with a reliable signal....I found HRV to be quite variable for "no obvious reason", and very little correlation to training state (heavily fatigued, rested and ready, etc). Its not nearly as simple as HRV4Training and the other apps make it out to be.

Regardless, even with a precise HRM (electrical) the HRV measurement is very noisy. Add an additional noise factor on top of that from a poor quality interval measurement, and I just don't think its possible to get an ACCURATE HRV measurement from Optical.

All Elite HRV is saying is that its getting "a signal". That doesn't tell you anything about the accuracy of the data from that signal.

My point is use a chest strap, or don't bother with HRV.

After collecting HRV readings from myself and the athletes I coach for almost a decade now, I would agree with this. The chest strap is far more accurate than finger sensors. While there have been studies that disagree with me on this, the level of practice/technique required to get consistently accurate measurements from PPG makes it impractical in my opinion.

On a related note, this study recently came out, favorably comparing the Elite HRV app with a Polar H7 strap to the RR intervals recorded via ECG:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...7486523/#!po=34.5238

---

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens
Web: https://alancouzens.com

Thank you Alan. That study at least shows a polar H7 chest strap works with the program I have been using. Not considering medical issues with the heart. Maybe I will pick one up and compare it with my scorche 24 just to see if the two come close. I guess it depends on your expectations of the program and how you use the results. I have been tracking it for a while and the numbers (1-10) have been tracking well with my training peak numbers as well as how I feel. So maybe it is close enough for me? I am not trying to look at it in detail or use it medically. Funny how you (Read as Me) just assume that the people who put together a program and have a list of acceptable tools put in the time to make it work as advertised.

As a respected professional, you and your clients would require professional results.

Tom, thanks for clarifying and as Alan has confirmed, the chest monitor is the best way to go. Just wanted to point out that Elite HRV doesn’t just confirm a signal is good. Below is what they say about smoothing artifacts and it doesn’t detail when you should not use the results!
Signal Quality & Artifacts
Signal Quality refers to how "clean" or true the RR data is as captured by your heart rate monitor.
Signal quality issues can come from biological (ectopic beats, arrhythmia) or technological (movement, signal interference) sources. These are referred to as artifacts or false heart beats.

Artifact Correction
Because of the high degree of accuracy needed to calculate a valid HRV, the signal quality is very important. Luckily, we analyze your raw RR data using well-researched and tested methods to detect these artifacts and then correct them so that the calculated HRV values are more accurate and valid.

Signal Quality Rating
As the number of artifacts present in a measurement increases (even those that are corrected), the accuracy of the HRV result decreases.
The simple Signal Quality Rating lets you know when your measurement quality is Good, Fair, or Poor and if your HRV results may be skewed due to too much signal corruption or if your heart rate monitor is altering or smoothing the RR intervals.

Improving Signal Quality
The most common cause of poor signal quality is from movement artifacts that cause false spikes in heart beats.
To reduce these artifacts when using a CorSense:

1. Limit movement during measurement
2. Try a different reading position or reading finger
3. Ensure CorSense is well charged
4. Manually reset the CorSense (plug and unplug from power 4 times in a row)

To reduce these artifacts when using a chest strap:

1. Limit movement during measurement
2. Ensure chest strap is moist
3. Ensure strap is tightened appropriately
4. Check and replace worn out chest straps
5. Check and replace HR monitor batteries that are low
6. Remove residual charge that has built up in HR monitor

I'd take that with a huge grain of salt...since that is an ECG waveform being drawn, not a PPG waveform.

Also, Elite HRV has a vested financial interest in you buying the CorSense.

Didn’t buy it ;) ! I had 2 friends buy the Oura ring one swears buy it one stopped using it and it wouldn’t work with this program.
It would be nice if the self coached athlete could get guidance like the OP was asking for. (Thanks Slowman for making these discussions possible as well as the experts on here).
I thought it was working for me and that is all I was saying in my original post. Now I have to do more research or do I just go for a run? Argh.

Thanks Jgill,

I do have to give Elite HRV props for displaying the number of artifacts detected and corrected. Many apps don't do this & I think it is useful in assessing whether you're getting good data.

That has been my experience in athletes using PPG (most commonly via phone camera) is that the number of artifacts due to movement tends to lead to inaccurately *high* HRV (when compared to the same data from a strap).

This has happened commonly enough that, while I think most of the apps do a good job of assessing HRV when the RR data is accurate, I would just go straight to the strap as the mode of collecting this data.

Removing artifacts is a tricky problem to solve algorithmically. It's hard to define the cutoff point between 'normal' beat to beat variation vs 'weird' beat to beat variation, especially in a way that works across populations and especially when the data consistently contains a lot of variability (as it often does in situations with light interference such as PPG)

For the true geeks among you, interested in digging in a little deeper for yourself and seeing how many artifacts there are, where the artifacts are occurring and the level of correction being applied, you can compare the HRV data from the app to data analyzed in Kubios (https://www.kubios.com/hrv-standard/) or for the coders among you, https://pypi.org/project/hrv-analysis/ is a great tool (written in Python) to dive deeper into any HRV file.

But, long story short, after spending a lot of time playing around & comparing the data from the apps against these tools, I always just recommend using the strap

---

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens
Web: https://alancouzens.com

Thanks for all the replys.
This has been very helpful!
As crazy as it may sound ....... through some inside tips, I have found that using the Polar H10 HR monitor / chest strap TURNED TO MY BACK has provided a perfect connection so far all week (fingers crossed and I am sure to have jinxed it now). So yes, instead of having the HR pod on the front of my chest, moving it to my BACK has worked flawlessly. Very strange but came as a tip so I guess there's some merrit to it. NOW .................... to decide WHICH app is giving me the most accurate and data rich experience that I can use (in conjunction with TrainingPeaks). EliteHRV or ithlete are the two I have tested fairly extensively and both have benefits and drawbacks that I see.