ironman race nutrition strategy

Sep 4, 19 9:43

Post #1 of 50 (8020 views)

my first ironman I carried 2 bottles of tailwind with 200-300 calories per bottle and also had my BTA with 200-300 calories. I also carried along some gu gels. In bike special needs, I also had 3 more premixed bottles of my tailwind. And during the ride, I ate clif bars from aid stations as needed and also grabbed water. I had zero GI issues. So I'm hesitant to change this strategy up for my next IM. Part of me felt like my bike was loaded down with extra weight of the bottles but not sure how I can avoid that.

One change I've considered is ditching the need for bottles in special needs and just having water in BTA and carry two concentrated tailwind bottles on the bike. My concern with this is tailwind states for each 100 of tailwind you need 10-12 oz of water in order for your body to process that. My concern is not executing that ratio correctly race day and having GI issues. If I have premixed bottles I don't have to worry about that but I will need to stop at bike special needs.

I've also considered just using what's available at the aid stations on the bike course. Has anybody done this? How did you get enough calories in?

I'm open to suggestions. I'm most likely overthinking things and almost feel like I'd be dumb to go away from original strategy.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 10:37

Post #2 of 50 (7954 views)

I am a big proponent of living off the course

Make sure your train with on course nutrition leading up to the race to identify any issues you may have. I leave T1 with a BTA bottle filled with G Endurance and a couple gels

Never had any issues

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 10:40

Post #3 of 50 (7950 views)

I make a Tailwind “sludge bottle”, that is super concentrated and has graduated lines on the side of the bottle so I can refill my BTA with an appropriate number of calories and dilute it down with water from the aid stations. I find I can put about 3 servings of TW into like 5oz of water for about 12 servings per sludge bottle

Level II USAT Coach | Level 3 USAC Coach | NASM-CPT
Team Zoot | Tailwind Trailblazer
I can tell you why you're sick, I just can't write you an Rx

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 10:48

Post #4 of 50 (7934 views)

Calvin386 wrote:

I am a big proponent of living off the course

I have been doing this on the 70.3s, but did my first 140.6 this summer and didn't feel the course nutrition was adequate for me.

After about 10mi of the run, I really started craving some heavy, high calorie food and the course really didn't have much other than gels, bananas, oranges, redbull, pretzels, coke, and the like.

I wanted to down some mac and cheese or have a burger or pizza or something really heavy. My nutritional needs are likely much higher than the average triathlete. I eat a lot. I don't have issues running after pizza or anything and would have loved to run with a slice or something, but they didn't have anything like that.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:02

Post #5 of 50 (7912 views)

mickison wrote:

I've also considered just using what's available at the aid stations on the bike course. Has anybody done this? How did you get enough calories in?

Yeah on the bike I just had 1 new bottle every aid station and used roughly 8 gels or so over 112mi (Clif Expresso 100mg). I brought the gels with me. Sometimes I grabbed a banana on the aid station and just mashed it in my hand and ate it without peeling and tossed it - I felt like I had enough energy then.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:07

Post #6 of 50 (7898 views)

mickison wrote:

One change I've considered is ditching the need for bottles in special needs and just having water in BTA and carry two concentrated tailwind bottles on the bike. My concern with this is tailwind states for each 100 of tailwind you need 10-12 oz of water in order for your body to process that.

That's what practice rides are for. ;-)

Seriously, I race with two concentrated bottles of EFS + water in the BTA. Every 15 minutes means a sip of EFS + chase with a few swallows of water. Every other aid station grab a water bottle and top off the BTA. Works like a champ.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [wcb] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:17

Post #7 of 50 (7875 views)

wcb wrote:

mickison wrote:

One change I've considered is ditching the need for bottles in special needs and just having water in BTA and carry two concentrated tailwind bottles on the bike. My concern with this is tailwind states for each 100 of tailwind you need 10-12 oz of water in order for your body to process that.

That's what practice rides are for. ;-)

Seriously, I race with two concentrated bottles of EFS + water in the BTA. Every 15 minutes means a sip of EFS + chase with a few swallows of water. Every other aid station grab a water bottle and top off the BTA. Works like a champ.

how many calories in your concentrated bottles? I have been training with some concentrated mixes. Maybe up to 600 calories in a bottle. So not too heavy a concentration. Do you sit up when you drink from a bottle? That's also my concern is I can't say I'm great at drinking from a bottle in aero.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [Dr_Cupcake] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:22

Post #8 of 50 (7866 views)

Dr_Cupcake wrote:

I make a Tailwind “sludge bottle”, that is super concentrated and has graduated lines on the side of the bottle so I can refill my BTA with an appropriate number of calories and dilute it down with water from the aid stations. I find I can put about 3 servings of TW into like 5oz of water for about 12 servings per sludge bottle

Hmmm. So 1200 calories per bottle? I hadn't thought about doing it that way. I've been just taking sips from a concentrated bottle then drinking water from BTA. But I have to sit up to take sips. your method I would just have to fill BTA from sludge bottle, top with water, and drink from BTA.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:35

Post #9 of 50 (7838 views)

mickison wrote:

wcb wrote:

mickison wrote:

One change I've considered is ditching the need for bottles in special needs and just having water in BTA and carry two concentrated tailwind bottles on the bike. My concern with this is tailwind states for each 100 of tailwind you need 10-12 oz of water in order for your body to process that.

That's what practice rides are for. ;-)

Seriously, I race with two concentrated bottles of EFS + water in the BTA. Every 15 minutes means a sip of EFS + chase with a few swallows of water. Every other aid station grab a water bottle and top off the BTA. Works like a champ.

how many calories in your concentrated bottles? I have been training with some concentrated mixes. Maybe up to 600 calories in a bottle. So not too heavy a concentration. Do you sit up when you drink from a bottle? That's also my concern is I can't say I'm great at drinking from a bottle in aero.

600 calories per bottle (3x concentration). I typically sit up as well.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:35

Post #10 of 50 (7836 views)

Yep! Exactly. I have better luck sipping from my BTA in aero, but it's still pretty easy to sit up for less than a minute to refill the BTA from the sludge bottle and top off with water. Let me know if you want pictures of my setup.

Level II USAT Coach | Level 3 USAC Coach | NASM-CPT
Team Zoot | Tailwind Trailblazer
I can tell you why you're sick, I just can't write you an Rx

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:52

Post #11 of 50 (7802 views)

I had 18gels (91kcal/gel) in my aero bottle on the tube during my last IM. Then 4 bars (199kcal/bar) on top of that. In total:

18x91=1638kcal in addition to the 796kcal from the bars, which yields 2434kcal. I didn't go through all of it as I came in a bit faster than anticipated but I hit T2 fresh as a daisy.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [Dr_Cupcake] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 11:56

Post #12 of 50 (7791 views)

I also mix up 2 sludge bottles with Hammer Perpetuem, and with a bit of work, can cram 1200 calories into a standard bottle. I freeze both the night before an IM, then put one in my bike halfway bag and the other on my bike before the swim start. I take small sips during the ride, chasing them with water+Nuun. I make sure I've finished the first bottle by the time I reach the special needs station, and make sure the second bottle is done by the time I get off the bike. That way I get off the bike with some fuel still in my gas tank.

"It's Ironman - it's supposed to be hard!"

Author of "Letters to a Driving Nation: Exploring the Conflict between Drivers and Cyclists." http://www.brucebutler.ca

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [Mickinson] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 12:23

Post #13 of 50 (7755 views)

Calvin386 wrote:

I leave T1 with a BTA bottle filled with G Endurance and a couple gels

Same. Depending on conditions I go through about one bottle of GE and 1-2 gels per hour. YMMV.

I used to do concentrated bottles of EFS like someone else mentioned but I like carrying less and not worrying about dropping a bottle. I somehow managed to launch a BTA bottle at nats last month which was a first.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [Dr_Cupcake] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 13:06

Post #14 of 50 (7706 views)

Dr_Cupcake wrote:

Yep! Exactly. I have better luck sipping from my BTA in aero, but it's still pretty easy to sit up for less than a minute to refill the BTA from the sludge bottle and top off with water. Let me know if you want pictures of my setup.

yeah. I don't mind sitting up for a minute to refill BTA. I have a profile design fc25 for BTA. Then on bottle cage on downtube and 2 bottle cages behind my saddle.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [jonmhicks] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 13:09

Post #15 of 50 (7696 views)

jonmhicks wrote:

Calvin386 wrote:

I leave T1 with a BTA bottle filled with G Endurance and a couple gels

Same. Depending on conditions I go through about one bottle of GE and 1-2 gels per hour. YMMV.

I used to do concentrated bottles of EFS like someone else mentioned but I like carrying less and not worrying about dropping a bottle. I somehow managed to launch a BTA bottle at nats last month which was a first.

what does that give you? like 380 calories per hour? Do you just dump the GE in BTA from each aid station?

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 14:25

Post #16 of 50 (7635 views)

Two Scoops EFS, 3-4 Scoops of CarboPro Peanut Butter and Honey Sandwich in Special Needs bag

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 15:02

Post #17 of 50 (7595 views)

Dr_Cupcake wrote:

I make a Tailwind “sludge bottle”, that is super concentrated and has graduated lines on the side of the bottle so I can refill my BTA with an appropriate number of calories and dilute it down with water from the aid stations. I find I can put about 3 servings of TW into like 5oz of water for about 12 servings per sludge bottle

I don't use Tailwind, but I am fussy about using a lower osmolarity electrolyte drink and this "sludge bottle" technique works beautifully. I dilute as many scoops as possible in a 20 oz bottle, keep track, and then I know how many BTA refills that could make. I also mark the bottle while inverted so I can see the amount to squirt per refill. I carry one bottle on the bike and keep a 2nd one cold in special needs, but it's also pretty easy to carry both (then I still have an emergency one in SN in case I jettison one).
Use a concentrate bottle with a good squeeze valve (Podium or Purist) so it's not dribbling all over the place.

http://www.extramilenutrition.com

Last edited by: greenjp: Sep 4, 19 15:02

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 15:04

Post #18 of 50 (7581 views)

I never used Tailwind, but my IM strategy was two ~750 calorie bottles of concentrated Infinit, chased with water from a BTA. Worked well for me.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 17:37

Post #19 of 50 (7470 views)

Yeah 280-380 depending on if you do 1 or 2 gels, though I tend to think of my race nutrition in terms of carbs, which for me is about 65g/hr on the bike. I’m only ~62kg FWIW.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [jonmhicks] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 18:31

Post #20 of 50 (7422 views)

jonmhicks wrote:

Yeah 280-380 depending on if you do 1 or 2 gels, though I tend to think of my race nutrition in terms of carbs, which for me is about 65g/hr on the bike. I’m only ~62kg FWIW.

That makes sense. I’m about 170lbs (77kg). I think my first IM I did do more calculations regarding carbs and calories which is again now what I’m sorting out. I did a half ironman earlier this year but that being so much shorter I didn’t worry too much. But full distance I stress a bit more

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [jonmhicks] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 18:33

Post #21 of 50 (7418 views)

jonmhicks wrote:

Calvin386 wrote:

I leave T1 with a BTA bottle filled with G Endurance and a couple gels

Same. Depending on conditions I go through about one bottle of GE and 1-2 gels per hour. YMMV.

I used to do concentrated bottles of EFS like someone else mentioned but I like carrying less and not worrying about dropping a bottle. I somehow managed to launch a BTA bottle at nats last month which was a first.

Ha! I launched a BTA including my bike computer earlier this year. The Velcro strap came loose. It was a few years old so the Velcro was worn out

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [greenjp] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 18:37

Post #22 of 50 (7413 views)

greenjp wrote:

Dr_Cupcake wrote:

I make a Tailwind “sludge bottle”, that is super concentrated and has graduated lines on the side of the bottle so I can refill my BTA with an appropriate number of calories and dilute it down with water from the aid stations. I find I can put about 3 servings of TW into like 5oz of water for about 12 servings per sludge bottle

I don't use Tailwind, but I am fussy about using a lower osmolarity electrolyte drink and this "sludge bottle" technique works beautifully. I dilute as many scoops as possible in a 20 oz bottle, keep track, and then I know how many BTA refills that could make. I also mark the bottle while inverted so I can see the amount to squirt per refill. I carry one bottle on the bike and keep a 2nd one cold in special needs, but it's also pretty easy to carry both (then I still have an emergency one in SN in case I jettison one).
Use a concentrate bottle with a good squeeze valve (Podium or Purist) so it's not dribbling all over the place.

Clear bottles I assume?

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 4, 19 23:56

Post #23 of 50 (7316 views)

For the bike on Ironman, I aim for 60g of carbs per hour.
Concentrated bottle of 32Gi Race Pro in the back, take sips from it, and drink water from my BTA. That way I can keep refilling my BTA with water, not get my bike a syrupy mess as it's an xlab torpedo leaking bottle.

I have tried it with the aero bottle on my down tube, but found I'm really bad at getting that bottle out of the cage, especially when hands are wet.

Electrolytes, I have tabs for it that I add to the water.

Keep some gels and soft chews in the bento box in case I'm needed a little extra, but generally, I don't as I know how much I need to sip and how often to get my 60 grams for carbs from the back bottle.

The biggest risk in this is losing the back bottle unaware. If I drop it, I would stop and retrieve it. But if it flies out and I don't notice, it would be the course and what's in the bento box...which should still keep me close to 60g of carbs, and i know my gut is super flexible.

At T3, I take a small bottle of the race pro mix with me and then gels for the first 25km, gels, coke, whatever they hand me till the finish line.

To the guy wanting pizza etc on an ironman....wow! :) I don't even want to eat anything for a few hours after the finish line!

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 5, 19 5:50

Post #24 of 50 (7214 views)

This might be a dumb question, but I'm doing my first full Ironman next year and I don't really know how it all works. How long do you typically stop if you use your special needs bag on the bike? I'm planning on using Infinit for my nutritional needs on the bike and I like the simplicity of having three pre-mixed bottles with me at the start and then grabbing another couple from special needs. No need to mix while riding or keep track of anything other than the goal of drinking one bottle per hour. But if stopping in special needs means several minutes of being off the bike and searching for a bag then it's not worth it to me. I don't want to lose the time or momentum.

Re: ironman race nutrition strategy [mickison] [ In reply to ]

Sep 5, 19 5:53

Post #25 of 50 (7211 views)

Yeah, clear-ish bottles. Mine are more translucent and they work fine.

http://www.extramilenutrition.com

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