No validity at all, you should use Tufos.

I have tubular Zipp 404s and older clincher Richeys which came with my Cervelo and I race on the Richeys because I think they are faster. I tried tufos on the Zipp 404s and I thought they were slow.

Of course, this is totally unscientific, but I find that personal experience sometimes trumps "science." For frame of reference, I averaged 22 and 22.3 mph in the two sprint tris I did this year (shortened season due to knee surgery).

Pro's ride tubulars for a couple of reasons:

1) they are, if you practice, faster to change
2) they can be ridden safely if you lose air (you know the word) for quite a ways.

- OR -

3) they don't know that there is any difference (this is highly likely for many pros, especially cyclists)
4) they believe that tubulars "ride" better because that is cycling lore
5) their team (in the case of cycling) tells them what to ride

The first set of reasons are for the "educated" type athlete. The second is for those who are not. The average age-group triathlete on ST probably knows a lot more about equipment than your average TdF rider, who pretty much just pedals the crap out of whatever he is given. Don't put too much stock in what the pros do.

As far as Tufos, many of these retailers probably don't have the first clue either. Beyond that, their is a demand, because people don't have a clue. Slowtwitch is an amazing bastion of knowledge. Just because understanding of things like rolling resistance, aerodynamics, and bike fit are regular topics of discussion here, it doesn't mean that they are regular topics of discussion in the triathlon world at large. Take a random survey of triathletes at a local race and ask them about those kind of topics, and you'll get a lot of blank stares...

Remember, "ignorance is bliss"!

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Why would anyone trade the ability to ride a flat or time in changing one for free watts? Does not seem like flats are a common enough occurrence to make it worth it. And I base this from only watching the lance chronicles a couple of years ago but steve hed was testing things like number placement, removing the seams from the TT suits etc to save a couple of seconds...did they really get the tires wrong?

very nicely said.

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

I only ride Tufo's and I tell the athletes that I coach to ride them. They're the best!

Are you sponsored by TUFO?

There's no faster tire out there...especially when pumped up to >200psi. That's when they really fly!

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

besides the tufo thing (do you want to buy mine? I'll sell them to you cheap once I get those gommitalia platinum from my Italian friends :) ) I do wonder about the tour riders riding on tubies, that or the dugast rr being a lot lower than the other tubies tried on that study... btw, I was quoted 130 euros for a dugast, way too much for us mere mortals!

If clinchers were really significantly faster I would think they'd be used in the TT stages, not to mention on the track and/or hour record attempts and so on.

I have a SILCA track pump and can get to 240psi!

Don't you guys find that riding above 140psi it becomes less comfortable and your body has to absorb more the road bumps...112mi is a long way maybe for Olympic distance...

What do you suggest?

Paulo... At what pressure do you inflate your TUFO tires when racing?

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

Even better.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Measurable things need to be measured.

If I step outside and look up at the sky for a while, it is my personal experience that the sun is making a circle around the earth. By taking some careful measurements, I would find that it's the other way around.

If somebody's personal experience is at odds with physical facts, guess who's wrong every time. We could easily give a group of riders two very different tires to test. They will most likely report different conclusions, but that doesn't change the fact that one tire is slower than another.

What I always hear: "We sell a lot of these, so they must be fast." I then point to a "comfort bike" and ask, "You sell a lot of those, too?"

"Sure."

"Well, those must be the fastest bikes in here then, right?"

"Err...uhh..."

One more (final?) time -- not ALL clinchers are faster than ALL tubulars. We need to be specific here. The best tubulars, mounted with strong, well-cured glue, are as fast as the best clinchers (and vice versa).

The problem is for cyclists who assume that all tubulars are faster, and they buy slow ones -- or even good ones and glue them the "standard way", which is slow. For the vast majority of triathletes, just going with a simple high-end clincher is the better option.

[reply]glue them the "standard way", which is slow.[/reply]

do you have pointers to the 'fast' gluing way? I've seen plenty of discussions on rr, tufos and so on, but I can't recall off the top of my head discussions on gluing technique (besides some folks advocating track glue)

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the tubulars that the top pros get are nothing at all like what we can buy. Lighter, very supple, with a different thread count.

Lance rode Dugast tubulars. Properly glued, and I imagine the USPS mechanics did a good job gluing them, there should not be much difference in RR (if any) between a Dugast and a premium clincher. Besides, by riding Dugasts, Lance already had a RR advantage over Jan Ullrich, who rode Contis. And, additionally, at the speeds that they were going, the wattage difference in RR is a much smaller percentage of the total wattage required to go 30+ mph during a time trial than it is to go 18-20mph during an IM. Also, the weight difference between tubular wheels and clincher wheels becomes a factor for many of the mountain stages, something that basically never happens during a triathlon.

Lance rode the fastest possible tubulars available. So I would say, no, he did not get the tires wrong. Maybe this winter, I'll do a rolldown test between a Michelin ProRace and a Dugast Strada Silk. I don't imagine it will be at all significant.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Several pro teams and riders (though I could not tell you who beyond Discovery/USPS, since I don't know) ride Dugast tubulars. You can buy them. They are just very expensive and somewhat hard to find - i.e. your LBS will not stock them, and you may have to wait a bit for them, but it's not like they are totally obscure. A silk Dugast tubular is certainly about as far from a Tufo as you can get, but it is obtainable by "the masses." Veloflex tubulars are also popular for rebadged. Veloflex bought the old Vittoria factory in Italy and continues to make tires the way Vittoria used to before they moved to Thailand. Vittoria still makes very good tires, although their tubulars are not as nice as their clinchers.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

I like Tufo tubulars, they are reliable and fast, I've never had a flat racing on them

I set some PR's with Tufo as well

Touche! Both excellent comments. I wish I could come up with witty remarks like those. I usually think of them in the car on the way home from the bike store.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"