god, both of which are fine topics and I am more than willing to throw an occasional 2 cents in, but for the most part what I think on them is no ones business but my own. Running on the other hand I love to talk about................

several dangerous topics on the net in no particular order

sex

marriage

politics

war in iraq

anything performance related can be dangerous ground.........

I'm not stupid..........no comment :)

Gary just always takes the anti PC position.

you changed the bottom part of your post to stir it up about France, funny how you pick and choose who is responsible given that Churchill and the American's both knew about the ghettoisation and round up of Jews through the late 30's but also chose to sit back and do nothing.........but that point would not suit your argument.

Sort of the pot calling the kettle black I think.........

out the hypocrisy, 6 million people were being exterminated, neither the Americans nor the British were oblivious to the fact it is well documented that they both knew. The public may not have but the leaders were well appraised of what was going on.

No I wont agree with you that todays conflict is very different, but it is clear that this is not a topic that one could ever debate with you because you are "right" and I have no interest in dragging this out in this forum.

I just thought that the changing of the post to make it strictly personal was out of line, other than that I could not care less if you think America should sit at home or go run the middle east, I just find the way you attempt to make your argument singling out a single person / nationality gives you zero credibility.

"$2.00 a gallon is crazy."

It's still cheaper than bottled water. Using it is much more harmful to the world too. Maybe we ought to think about our overwhelming dependence on that flammable liquid and look for other ways to get the energy we need. And this coming from a guy whose typically very conservative on these sorts of issues. (Using bikes to get around might help!!! ;-) Gas is only expensive if you use a lot.

FWIW, I have a buddy in Escondido who's house is fully independent. He got so sick of rising prices, he just said "screw it" and installed solar, and a ground source heat pump. He already had his own well, so now the only services he uses are gas for cooking and sewer. He's got a pretty big house with a pool too.

Then again, how did this thread turn into this discussion??

going in to Iraq, your personal philosophy is terrifying.

You believe that you have the right to go in to a country, take control of their natural resources, control the surrounding countries and their resources and this is "freedom and democracy".

Personally this sounds more like Germany of the 30's than a world power in the new century, but maybe I misread you. You want to go in to Iran, Iraq, and Palestine, take control of their governments to your ends and this is freedom and democracy?

I guess you would also advocate locking up those people that live there that object to your prescence, prehaps send them to a Gulag?

So funny how your "freedom and democracy" only extends to people that ultimately would serve your purpose, but does not extend to China who already do or Saudi, or other smaller African Contries where one population is oppressed by another.........

You might want to reread what you wrote and see if there are any people in history you can think of that felt it was their god given right to go in and set up shop in another country because they did not like the people that lived there............

Someone pointed out to me yesterday that the rest of the world probably views Americans the way a lot of Americans view the CEO's of Enron, Globalcrossing et. al.

Possibly an adept analogy.



Richard

really amusing is that the country that purports to support freedom and democracy is all bent out of shape because France, Germany and I am willing to bet eventually Britain, wont in the long run support them because the people in these democracies, 70%+ of the population, are against it. This does not sit well, apparently these leaders of these countries are not on side in the "war on terror" and the US is objecting to the fact that these democratically elected leaders are doing what the free people in these countries want........

The irony here is perfect...........we want democracy and freedom unless you disagree with us.......

It takes a nation with courage to stand up for what is right in the world. Now, that said, there are much more economic reasons to remove him as well. Notice how we dont rush into Africa to get rid of dictators? Exactly, that's the best point you've made. It has nothing to do with standing up for what's right, or we'd be interceding much more often than we do. I just wish we were more honest about our reasons for doing things, instead of making it seem like we're "freedom fighters" - give me a break. There is no money or resources there. Hopefully freedom is contagious and the ideals of a free Iraq will spread to Iran and the rest of the middle east.

I think that once we occupy Iraq we will be much better off as a nation with some US control in the middle east. Next we have to go into Iran and Palestine and clean house. You're scaring me.

We really need to do something about Venezuala though, their president is ruining the oil industry in that country - which is where we get most of our oil. $2.00 a gallon is crazy. Now you're really scaring me.

that you are essentially in favor of US dictatorship whereever it suits the US interests and the hypocrisy in your statements about freedom and democracy is pure BS. Thats a fact, you are saying the same things that the leaders of certain countries were saying in the 20's and 30's, it was their vision of how everyone should live..............

You are in favor of freedom and democracy here and oppression elsewhere so provide your freedom and democracy.

Your views are also what will cause more attacks and more victims of terror.

You are correct that your number one priority should be yourself but at the same time by saying this you have to accept that you are going to upset a whoie bunch of people who will merely carry on where 9/11 left off.

Its not right, I'm not justifying it I'm simply telling you that this attitude is what led to 9/11 and continuing to believe that you can go in and tell the rest of the world how it should live will lead to these situations.

Your political views are terrifying, we have muslim extremeists on the one hand that want to kill all westerners and people like you on the other that feel you have some god given right to go in and take their land their resources and tell them how to live their lives...........talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

On behalf of all Americans I apologize to the entire world for Gary (and George for that matter). :)

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

You are right about one thing, I do have a God given right, I am an American. What kind of statement is that??
Do us(Americans) a favor and stay off of our side.

 
GT HEY GT This would be a great time for you to say something s-t-u-p-i-d