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doping references..for dan
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for indurain: positive to salbutamol in 1994...
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/cycling/story/0,10482,757029,00.html

for merckx: positive giro 69
http://www.danielhagen.de/fahrer/merckxeddy.html

for anquetil: never as explained, but here is a quote
in
http://membres.lycos.fr/regaliz/dopage/dopage35.htm

for Armstrong (in french)
http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/portraits/armstrong.htm


this does not mean, I consider any of these guys cheats. the tests have their limits, there are doubts here and there...
virenque made a mistake and paid for it.
give the guy a break. or is it the french thing again...?
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Re: doping references..for dan [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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I am glad Virenque will win another climber's jersey and don't really care that much about doping in any case, BUT I have had it up to here with the "I made a mistake" excuse that seems to have spread to every case where somebody gets in trouble.

In Virenque's case where was the mistake? Was he intending to take a vitamin and mistakenly injected EPO? The only mistake any of the allegedly mistaken have made is in thinking they wouldn't get caught. If you intend to cheat (or whatever) and do in fact cheat that is not a mistake.

Reminds me of a line from the Larry Sanders Show about an "accidental" affair - "What, she slipped and fell on your d**k?"
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Re: doping references..for dan [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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"this does not mean, I consider any of these guys cheats... or is it the french thing again...?"

as to the drugs, see my note under the "cathy morgan" thread.

as to the "french thing" i don't remember writing anything derogatory about the french. did i?

i would REALLY like for virenque to be someone i could respect and like. i guess i'd need for him to devote a lot more of his career and post career to the problems associated with drugs in sport. i haven't seen that yet. i'd be happy to eat my words if someone could show that to me. otherwise, it seems to me that he got caught in the drug web, denied it, continued to deny it, and only stopped denying it when it was obvious there was nothing else to be done but to own up to it.

now he's on the long road toward regaining trust. will he make further attempts to gain trust, or is winning the polka dot jersey enough so that he can just tell the rest of us to pound sand? i hope he continues to be an advocate for drug-free sport. time will tell. i give everyone the benefit of the doubt. but when they're caught, they have to earn my trust back. american, french, or otherwise.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: doping references..for dan [mises] [ In reply to ]
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As far as most of the world is concerned, Virenque's biggest mistake was the way he handled the aftermath without the slightest hint of character until absolutely force to do so or give up his livelihood. Lots of people make "mistakes" or poor decisions. Hell, I'll be the first to say I've done some lowdown things in my life. But when you lack the character to own up to them when confronted in a public setting you invite long standing derision. Some folks can forgive that. Some folks, like Cathy, can't. That's their choice. Respect that.

I'm glad to see Virenque doing well, and perhaps I have a bit more compassion for second chances. But I still would like to see some of what Dan suggests happen now and in the future.
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