Probably the most aerodynamic thing you can do, according to John Cobb, is wear a Camelback. The only disadvantage that I can see with them is you can't refill it on the fly and they can feel a little hot in hotter races. Also some people think they look goofy. Personally I like them and use one in training and in some races.

Richard

I also like the camel back for training but I've designed my own system that has a bottle mounted behind the seat with a long tubing hose that runs along the length of the tube to handle bars where it rises up to my mouth in an aero position. This way the bottle is tucked behind me out of the aero stream and I never have to reach and fumble for a downtube mounted bottle. This is not my original idea. It's currently being marketed and all I did as sort of copy it.

Cerveloguy,

Did you design it so it can be refilled while riding?

Richard

No I can't fill it on the fly. That's not an issue to me at this stage because I am currently only doing sprint/Oly tris. The one that is being sold commercially can be filled on the fly. I've seen pictures of it but I can't remember what it's called. I think Dan gave mention to this product not long ago.

My wife is quite adament that we should run an IM at some time in the future. That will be really tough for me because all my life I've been a fast twitch person(ran 100 yds. in high school, never ran more than 400 metres before starting tri) but as she has lots of endurance(college cross country team), she'll do fine. Once this happens I'll have to find another solution.

neverreach. It is a great idea. I saw it at Interbike and invited the inventor to share my booth at Hawaii to show it to everyone. I don't think she is ready to ship quite yet.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

That's it. Brilliant idea. Found the url http://www.neverreach.com/page/page/276159.htm

I like their quote:

"Tests results indicate a 35 second performance increase in a 40-kilometer time trial by just having NeverReach mounted!!"

Actually, just the fact that I don't have to take a mitt off the bars and reach down for a water bottle will save me time. Also the position behind the rider makes aero sense. I wouldn't be surprised if it did save me 35 seconds over 40 kms.

Cheetah behind the saddle bottle holder is my favourite. Check them out at www.catbikes.ch

Actually, bottles on the frame are not as bad as previously thought. I just don't like them on the frame, and my current bike won't allow them anyhow. I would do the tubing from the bottles (as another poster is better at describing how to do it) if you're worried about reaching for them and the effect on your bike split. I am not all that worried, as I am old and slow, anyhow.

The only problem I see is that the water in my camelback tube gets hot. On days that I use it I always blow the water in the tube back into the camelback. Or I'm drinking hot water every drink. This is a long tube and I would think the effect would be worse. It's kind of hard blowing the water back from the short camelback tube, this thing could pop your eyes out

I have a Profile Design Aqua Rack under/behind my saddle and a Jet Stream bottle on my aero bar.
With the Aqua Rack I have no problems mounting my bike.

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http://www.weilenmann.ch.vu

I wonder how far off it is. I'll try to find it, but I remember an article a few years ago citing a 7 second loss at 40k/h everyt time you reached down to shift your downtube shifters. (Like I said, it was a few years ago...). I would think a bottle grab would be similar and 7x in an hour sound reasonable...

Personally I just put the bottles where the bike gods meant them to be (inside the triangle). That way I see them and don't have to fumble to grab them, and they remind me to drink.

John Cobb's Web site say's to leave your bottle on your bike.It is more aero. Cullen

In 7 seconds at 40K/hr, one covers 78 m. I don't think
it's reasonable that with two riders riding side by side,
one drops back 78 m each time they shift. That seems like what would be lost if they stopped the bike, moved
the chain, then started riding again.

I like the X-Lab saddlewing and two cages. For short stuff, with a cage on my frame (the seat tube in most cases becasue of the aero down tube with no bottle mounts) I use the one bottle there becasue of convenience and keep the empty bottle in the cage as the bare cage generates more drag than a cage with an empty bottle in it.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

   Cobb has modified his research on bottle position. His latest says that, especially for round tube bikes, the frame mounts are best. HOWEVER, there are other tube shapes, like those proffered by a certain avid poster in these forums, that are best used with behind the seat jobs. The caveat to the behind the seat jobs is that the bottles need to be low and not extend into the wind above the back. That kind of precludes the most popular model, especially when used with the tall bottles. Of course I don't heed his advice and use that very model.

Cullen

John Cobb is a hard guy to quote because he says so many things(sometimes apparently contradictory) that might apply to a specific situation, to so many different people. But I do remember him saying that carrying the bottles inside main frame triangle is aerodynamic unless you have an aeroframe. Check out this article from Gordo Byrn's gordoworld.com section titled

"Gordo Tips" ,"Bike fit with John Cobb":

http://www.byrn.org/cobb_fit.htm

Richard

Hmm. Good point - might have been 4s. I would argue with you, but that would require way too much brainpower for me on a Friday afternoon. I'll have a search for the study this weekend anyway. Figure a full stop will cost you a good hundred meters though, assuming you don't sprint like a fool to get back on.

Happy training this weekend.

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Thanks for the info.Good thing i'm lazy or i'd have to take that cage off my bike.I like the way it looks without anyway.By the way i've always used an aero back.Cullen

darn, I just took my bottle mount off of my saddle because of JC's article. Now I have to put it back on.

No wonder my times are so slow lately. :)