I have seen groups of triathletes training many times but not once can I recall a situation where they were all spaced out by three bike lengths. It always struck me as odd as that would be a great opportunity to learn how to legally pass and how to judge the three bike length distance.

Let's say you're in a 6-man break in a race, and everyone is rotating through. No one is calling out or signaling anything. Because you're focused on racing. But you're not just staring at the ass of the guy in front of you, so you are able to react as needed.

Well it's the same way when you're riding with a group that knows what they're doing. It's unnecessary to be constantly calling out "hole", "gravel", "road apples" or whatever ...

Even in a race guys will occasionally call out obstacles. Maybe its just the old guys. Here is how I look at it. Calling out or pointing at stuff is a courtesy, Like opening a door for someone. Its nice to do, but if you walk into a closed door because you were expecting someone to hold it open, well thats your bad.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

"The internet and a power meter do not replace 50,000 miles of experience, but try telling that to a fit forty year-old, new to cycling, on a $5000 bike. Or, god forbid, a triathlete. "

:D

so in this road race series this past spring there were two groups A's and B's.......there was an individual that could no longer hang with the A's so under the cover of the term "Mentor" was riding with the B's. He would CONSTANTLY yell at the group to attack or bridge or this that and the other. Annoying is the nicest word ANYONE could come up with. So, he's finally pissed me off verbally through out the last couple races and this specific race he was doing it again. On a looped course 4 loops/race, we have a 5-6man break away (why this "Mentor" that wasn't "racing" decided he needed to be in our break i don't know) the mentor was taking super short pulls right behind me in our break paceline. coming up in the road there was a big pot hole, the same one that had been there for 3 laps earlier as well as last week and the week before. it was set up perfectly. the paceline pulls right up next to the hole at speed the mentor is the last man on the pack, i'm right in front of him. at the last possible millisecond i 'swerve' 2inches to the left skirting the hole just barely. BAM pfsssssssssssssssst FU#$#!...........bye bye mentor! everyone said 'thanks'.

i know it was a dick move, but dude we've gone by that hole at least 15times before that?!?!

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Tim

I'm all for courtesy, but karma works also.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

Why aero bars and pacelines don't go together caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/...x=5&feature=plpp

you nailed it...
dick move.

LOL, love how the guy after recovering somehow didn't think "hmm, maybe I should be un-clipping myself now that I didn't eat road", what an idiot.

Let me ask a follow up question for the roadie experts. I typically ride my tri-bike in group rides within a pace line. My rule has always been that I stay on the bullhorns while in the line, but do switch to the aero bars when pulling the group. I feel like I can signal almost as quickly from the aero bars as the bullhorns anyway. Bad practice?

The answer depends alrgely on the make-up of the group, but overall, I think most would view that practice as acceptable.

The one thing you may wanna consider is that you are kinda screwing the guy behind you when you get in your aerobars. I've been behind guys with good aero positions and when they get on their bars, the increase in wind resistance is notceable. So the guy behind you is gonna end up working harder than most of the guys in the group. Not a huge deal, but....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I would not be happy sucking anyone's wheel when they're in aerobars, they can't react as fast to problems and would have more trouble recovering if they hit something unexpected.

Additionally I would also not accept someone in aerobars sucking my wheel, they can't brake/react fast enough if I need to do something unexpected.

Aerobars are for lone-riding or riding at a significant distance from other riders, it's as simple as that, if I had to put a figure on it, I would say go with the 2 second rule (be at least 2 seconds away from each other if you're riding "together" with people)... some might say "bah, 10m away from each other is fine", but people aren't generally as alert in training as they would be on race day.

While I still agree that aero bars are not to be used in a group, I do think that odds are quite high that even with a road bike in the mix, the accident would still occur. I've been in 3 similar incidents in the past 2 years, none of which involved aerobars, and not too aggressive riding.

I know on a roadie forum, everyone would pin ALL the blame on the aerobars, but while I think they certainly add to the risk, I do think it would be incorrect to attribute most of the risk to the aerobars - more often than not, in a fast line, things do happen even without the bars.

I especially like the "oh s**t" moment at 0:16. I'm sorry, but it's hard not to laugh. Glad he's ok though.

as i don't have a road bike (read poor student) i only ride on my tri bike, and that means group rides. i am never in my aero bars, unless i'm pulling off the front on a mega downhill. otherwise, i'm usually on the horns. i've never had any problems being able to shift my gears fast enough. it's just a courtesy, and i don't want to be blamed for ruining someone's season.

And the track people would pin all the blame on having brakes! :-)

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

the leader of the pace line is LARGELY at fault.

you knew all of them were pace lining you.

you knew many of them were on aero bars.

you knew all of them had limited reaction time, UNLIKE YOU.

you knew all of them had limited view of the front, UNLIKE YOU.

you knew all of them were relying on you, to a huge extent, as a leader and for their safety.

you knew all of them were relying on you FOR ALL THE WARNINGS.

you knew you could have slowed down.

you knew you could have avoided the rock farther.

you knew you could have shouted as loud as you can (I always do as a pace line leader, ALWAYS. the longer the line / bigger the group, the louder)

and because of your omission to do any of these BASIC THINGS ---- SERIOUS INJURY TO OTHERS HAVE RESULTED.

the worst part was --- doing these basic safety measures was not going to cost you anything. NOTHING AT ALL.

yet look at the resulting damage and injury for omitting them?

YES, YOU ARE LARGELY AT FAULT.

andrew

If that dude had just stayed in his bars he would have been fine. Looked like when he grabbed for the drops he chunked it. Regardless of the gear there are just some people that you really do not want to ride in close proximity to. The nice thing about things like that is that it always seems to be the jackass that gaps and hits your wheel from behind that goes down.

Totally agree with you Andrew. In the air force, in formation flying, were taught as the lead you are the eyes and ears of the group as those behind have to focus more on those in front of them. Lead only has to navigate the space safely and the rest should sort itself out. As lead we were always taught to avoid sudden and abrupt movements if able and to think way ahead of the formation. I often resort back to those days when cycling in a group and think it helps to make me a better cyclist. If riders would think more about those behind them there would be a lot safer group rides.

Number one rule in formation flying....don't hit lead!

On another note, one of the clubs I cycle with won't allow aerobars in group rides...seems like a pretty sound rule to me.

When someone's pulling in aero at the front of the group, and I'm 2nd wheel, I'll typically give them a big gap (or just let them drift right off the front entirely). I don't trust them to signal fast enough and I want a clear view of the road. As soon as the guy gets into the bars I consider them temporarily out of the rotation and I'm now leading the group.

Somewhat in the guys defense, he had a severe issue with his front wheel. You can see the broken spokes flapping around after the contact and the wheel becomes horribly out of true. Any number of issues could have caused the endo at that point....spokes getting jammed in the brakes, partial wheel collapse, etc.

Not excusing his jacka$$ riding, but I dunno how much he can be criticized for the endo......

Note: I had the same reacion as you when I first saw the vid..."Why the hell does he grab a bunch of brake then? Fookin dyot!" Then I went back and looked a little closer at the scene. He is lucky he made it as far as he did on that wheel.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Wow - remind me to never ride with you. Dick move. What if he had actually gotten hurt? It's people like you that give roadies and triathletes a bad name.

I was referring to jackasses in the general sense rather than that particular guy. The error was gapping and hitting the other guys wheel. After that his did look shredded and I agree that he was lucky to slow it down a bunch before the endo. Assuming no broken collar bone that is actually a pretty good way to end that scene, way better than a bunch of road rash.

+1

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http://www.jt10000.com/