this is stupid for a few reasons.

1) if you're gunning for a kona slot, then you have no idea what it is like

2) i'm willing to bet a lot of coaches talk about this behind closed doors. i applaud brian for stepping up and saying it in public. if more coaches spoke up, then perhaps real change can be achieved.

3) you could have e-mailed this to him, you clearly want to shame him, which is like, 4th grade shit.

i'm all for draft legal races. but i've done 6 ironmans and there has not been a single one where there was not blatant drafting. i stopped counting the matches that i have burned trying to fend off bike packs.

placid (blatant on the out and back stretch), parts of wisconsin (least drafting really), cozumel (blatant), CAC (blatant, but more like 3-4 per pack), IMMD (about same as CAC), IMMT this year (blatant).

you train 6-8 months, hard. you sacrifice everything in your life (not all of us are genetically gifted) for a shot at kona. are you REALLY going to sit up and lose 10 minutes on the bike to avoid fighting the packs? are you REALLY going to burn 15 minutes of run time in matches because you tried to fight the packs? or are you going to look at the pack, see that 2-4 of your competitors are in your age group, and have to make a split decision, very well realizing you are breaking the rules.

he's not condoning it, he's just telling you the reality. speeding is illegal on the highway, yet i bet you hop on the fast lane to pass at 85mph when the legal limit is 65mph, i also bet you have passed on the right as well.

i can't stand the blatant draft packs. they have caused me so much misery, but i am empathetic for those chasing kona slots. you're not going to beat them, you can take the "high" road and not jump in for a sip of draft everytime they go by and then drop them on the hills, but realize that sometimes, the ends justify the means.

i saw it happen at IMMT. a girl that took 4th in her AG was riding around the same speed as the pack. on climbs, she was faster, on the flats they overtook her. she sat in on them. the hope is to finally drop them on the hill so hard that they can't catch you. she ended up doing that. i'm pretty sure fighting that pack cost me 25 mintues on my marathon..

As many of us know, you are considered a top coach to some of the world's best age groupers, as well as to some pros."
In yesterday's thread entitled "70.3 worlds bike course was a disaster", folks began the usual posts complaining about drafting on the bike course, including "packs." You chimed in by stating the following, among other things, re drafting on the bike at WTC races: "As an athlete it sucks bc if you want to be competitive at some point you're going [to] have to choose to break the rules [or] not. As a coach it sucks bc I'm forced to tell my athletes that [at] any and every WTC race they do they will probably need to make a decision to break the rules if they want to be competitive. At least on the dudes side."

When someone expressed their shock/disgust at your indication that you suggest to your athletes that they may need to decide to go ahead and cheat at WTC races via drafting in order to be competitive, you stated: "Do [you] want [your] athletes to break the rules [by drafting on the bike]? No. I stress clean riding, clean racing, [t]he reality of WTC racing is that drafting is part of the game now."

The same poster followed up by saying that s/he thought "it's pathetic that a coach will tell people that pay him to cheat," queried, "What's next. A little medical boost," and continued, "[t]he rules are no drafting and justifying drafting with those rules seems wrong to me".

You replied by doubling down, calling that person, in your third post, "naive", scoffing that s/he "obviously [wasn't] a triathlete or [doesn't] race anymore or are [sic] way off the back and aren't in the bell curve of of the age groupers." After then explaining that if s/he "were any of those", s/he would realize that [bike] packs will inevitably form in every WTC race, and thus "what [you] tell [your] athletes" is "exactly" as follows: "'You will either have to make the decision to join it, let it go or ride 10-20m off the back of that pack.'"

Well, I am a triathlete, I do continue to race, and I'm not "way off the back" in my competitive M40-44 age group. Nor am I naive about draft packs (e.g., pros this year at IM Brazil, age groupers in my division at long course nationals last year, etc.). I also don't pretend to be, or have delusions of being, a WTC podium threat. But, in M40-44, I've done well enough to get a roll down for Austria (declined), missed Australia roll down by 7 seconds, qualified for oly nationals each of my 3 years in the sport, made AWA gold the last 2 years (as misguided as the points system may be), and at least did well enough to qualify for this year's long course worlds in OKC (withdrew last month due to surgery for injury that has kept me out this year). And I have done so without ever once considering "intentionally drafting" to get the edge you suggest that your athletes consider, despite being passed myself by groups and cursing them as they go by.

It's called racing with integrity, for personal reasons if nothing else, and something I feel confident that the vast majority of competitive age groupers stick to (including your athlete who won long course worlds last year). The fact that someone is in the running for much tougher slots like Kona or 70.3 worlds in Chatt doesn't change the analysis. Further, I do not agree, and am willing to bet that others likewise disagree, with your statement that all WTC participants "will probably need to make a decision to break the rules if they want to be competitive" in this way.

As the poster whom you belittled said, your apparent reasoning could apply just the same to, for example, using "T," especially in the male 40-60 age groups. And it applies equally to those who cheat (and take the accompanying risks) in business to gain more money, move ahead, etc.

In sum, while I could use more colorful language, I will just say that as someone who loves racing and hopes to do it competitively for many years to come, I'm disappointed with your apparent approach, especially as a coach with a broad listening audience, and hope others will join in protesting it rather than accepting the dangerous slippery slope of a "do whatever it takes to win" attitude. Alternatively, if you did not really mean what you said, perhaps you could clarify for those who care.

Last, to all those who have beat me and others by drafting on the bike: FU.

3) you could have e-mailed this to him

Ok, so lets say you are the coach of a bunch of athletes that are pointy end and want to podium in the big shows. They come to you and say coach, do I have a chance at a podium in LCW?

After you tell them that there is and has been since inception rampant drafting, and people often go 30 minutes faster overall than normal, what is you next bit of advice? Keep in mind they are paying you to podium and you cannot sway them off of doing the race..

Tell us coach, what is your expert advice to your athletes who insist on doing this race?

I know what I would say, just want to hear your solution to this problem since you have such a hard on for what one coach chose to do..

in reply to DJred, Brian made his comments publicly on this forum. Given the content and import, they needed to be addressed publicly on this forum. It seems there are 2 camps thus far: the ends justify the means, and cheating is cheating and you're an ass if you do it intentionally.

Ok, so lets say you are the coach of a bunch of athletes that are pointy end and want to podium in the big shows. They come to you and say coach, do I have a chance at a podium in LCW?

After you tell them that there is and has been since inception rampant drafting, and people often go 30 minutes faster overall than normal, what is you next bit of advice? Keep in mind they are paying you to podium and you cannot sway them off of doing the race..

Tell us coach, what is your expert advice to your athletes who insist on doing this race?

I know what I would say, just want to hear your solution to this problem since you have such a hard on for what one coach chose to do..

As many of us know, you are considered a top coach to some of the world's best age groupers, as well as to some pros."

In yesterday's thread entitled "70.3 worlds bike course was a disaster", folks began the usual posts complaining about drafting on the bike course, including "packs." You chimed in by stating the following, among other things, re drafting on the bike at WTC races: "As an athlete it sucks bc if you want to be competitive at some point you're going [to] have to choose to break the rules [or] not. As a coach it sucks bc I'm forced to tell my athletes that [at] any and every WTC race they do they will probably need to make a decision to break the rules if they want to be competitive. At least on the dudes side."

When someone expressed their shock/disgust at your indication that you suggest to your athletes that they may need to decide to go ahead and cheat at WTC races via drafting in order to be competitive, you stated: "Do [you] want [your] athletes to break the rules [by drafting on the bike]? No. I stress clean riding, clean racing, [t]he reality of WTC racing is that drafting is part of the game now."

The same poster followed up by saying that s/he thought "it's pathetic that a coach will tell people that pay him to cheat," queried, "What's next. A little medical boost," and continued, "[t]he rules are no drafting and justifying drafting with those rules seems wrong to me".

You replied by doubling down, calling that person, in your third post, "naive", scoffing that s/he "obviously [wasn't] a triathlete or [doesn't] race anymore or are [sic] way off the back and aren't in the bell curve of of the age groupers." After then explaining that if s/he "were any of those", s/he would realize that [bike] packs will inevitably form in every WTC race, and thus "what [you] tell [your] athletes" is "exactly" as follows: "'You will either have to make the decision to join it, let it go or ride 10-20m off the back of that pack.'"

Well, I am a triathlete, I do continue to race, and I'm not "way off the back" in my competitive M40-44 age group. Nor am I naive about draft packs (e.g., pros this year at IM Brazil, age groupers in my division at long course nationals last year, etc.). I also don't pretend to be, or have delusions of being, a WTC podium threat. But, in M40-44, I've done well enough to get a roll down for Austria (declined), missed Australia roll down by 7 seconds, qualified for oly nationals each of my 3 years in the sport, made AWA gold the last 2 years (as misguided as the points system may be), and at least did well enough to qualify for this year's long course worlds in OKC (withdrew last month due to surgery for injury that has kept me out this year). And I have done so without ever once considering "intentionally drafting" to get the edge you suggest that your athletes consider, despite being passed myself by groups and cursing them as they go by.

It's called racing with integrity, for personal reasons if nothing else, and something I feel confident that the vast majority of competitive age groupers stick to (including your athlete who won long course worlds last year). The fact that someone is in the running for much tougher slots like Kona or 70.3 worlds in Chatt doesn't change the analysis. Further, I do not agree, and am willing to bet that others likewise disagree, with your statement that all WTC participants "will probably need to make a decision to break the rules if they want to be competitive" in this way.

As the poster whom you belittled said, your apparent reasoning could apply just the same to, for example, using "T," especially in the male 40-60 age groups. And it applies equally to those who cheat (and take the accompanying risks) in business to gain more money, move ahead, etc.

In sum, while I could use more colorful language, I will just say that as someone who loves racing and hopes to do it competitively for many years to come, I'm disappointed with your apparent approach, especially as a coach with a broad listening audience, and hope others will join in protesting it rather than accepting the dangerous slippery slope of a "do whatever it takes to win" attitude. Alternatively, if you did not really mean what you said, perhaps you could clarify for those who care.

Last, to all those who have beat me and others by drafting on the bike: FU.

Monty, they didn't say the same thing at all. Brian said, as I quoted, that the athlete will probably need to make a decision to break the rules to be competitive at the pointy end ("in that way"). Jonnyo said the opposite: it's not necessary to cheat through intentional drafting in order to win.

"That's not entirely true. In the M40-44 they did hand out some penalties to people in the pack and no one bothered to get out of the pack.
I don't understand why you guys bitch after every race. Yes I know I did that, often in fact, in the past. But now I realized WTC = new ITU for age groupers.

In the female 40-44 my athlete exited the water second took the lead on the bike and won her AG by :90 or :95. Since she was solo & off the front, at least she didn't have to worry about drafting in her AG.

As an athlete it sucks bc if you want to be competitive at some point you're going o have to choose to break the rules of not.

As a coach it sucks bc I'm forced to tell my athletes that any and every WTC race they do they will probably need to make a decision to break the rules if they want to be competitive. At least on the dudes side. "

but in our conversation I told her to expect something like this to happen and that she'd need to make a decision to do her own race and possibly sacrifice winning the AG and possibly not getting a 70.3 Worlds slot or getting into the group and risking taking the penalty.

"Draft packs", are we talking the legal 12m distance that is misinterpretated to mean an actual 6-8m distance?
Or are we talking 1 (one) meter distance? Is that what I'll be up against in Kona (FOP swimmer)?