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Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record
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Title says it..
Which venue do you think would be fastest?
Or an alternative venue in North or South America (2500m max altitude)

Thanks In Advance..
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure this info Is 100% correct! but...The Springs is at about 6000 ft and Mexico is 7000+ (if I remember correctly). I think the Springs is also a longer track (333m versus 250m) and I don't know if you can do world records on the longer track. Springs is cement with some minor cracking and Mexico is smoother wood.

Assuming this is correct I would say Mexico s faster if you have decent pursuit skills (can follow the line on the tighter corners), can deal with the additional compression of the corners, the more uneven power output, and catch a good air preassure day.

Springs might have another hour record day this spring before they take the roof off. That is an easier and cheaper option.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
....Springs is cement with some minor cracking and Mexico is smoother wood....

If I had to put a wild ass guess on the difference between wood and concrete, I'd say 10 watts at 25-30mph. I once did some field testing at Hellyer (San Jose). It was godawfully slow.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [jens] [ In reply to ]
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Jens, Thanks...Do you by chance have any data? 10 watts at 50km/h is significant!
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Springs is only covered in the winter, so you'll have to get awfully lucky to have a warm (fast) day there. If you wait until the cover is off it's obviously a crapshoot with wind. You may also factor in where the athlete lives, what altitude they can easily acclimatize to where they live, and how sensitive they are to altitude.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Bernoullitrial wrote:
Jens, Thanks...Do you by chance have any data? 10 watts at 50km/h is significant!

Based on my testing (from ~10 y ago), the concrete track at Colorado Springs and the wood track in Los Angeles are indistinguishable from a smooth asphalt road. I would assume that Aquascalientes is a lot smoother, so 10 W (or more) is certainly possible.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [ In reply to ]
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Guadalajara hosted the Panamerican games not too long ago and has a nice track, perhaps and alternative to consider?
https://en.wikipedia.org/...B3dromo_Panamericano
Last edited by: Art M.: Dec 22, 17 8:37
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Bernoullitrial wrote:
Jens, Thanks...Do you by chance have any data? 10 watts at 50km/h is significant!

I don't, but maybe we can get Kevin to publish his data on his record attempts at Hellyer and Aguascalientes. Maybe he has already -- I haven't searched.

I can say from memory, that the concrete track was about as slow as Oregon chipseal. So tires that were testing at .003 on the rollers were like .0043 on the concrete.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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if you were really tough you'd drive down the street to rock hill ;)
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Aguas is the fastest track in the world. Co Springs (with the top on) is a very good track for hours, but there are a couple of others that are close depending on your strengths. (especially regarding altitude and track craft)

Rock Hill (great track) is the epitome of what you don't want in an hour record track ;)

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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vjohn wrote:
Springs is only covered in the winter, so you'll have to get awfully lucky to have a warm (fast) day there. If you wait until the cover is off it's obviously a crapshoot with wind. You may also factor in where the athlete lives, what altitude they can easily acclimatize to where they live, and how sensitive they are to altitude.

I think the last time they did an hour record day it was the last weekend before they removed the cover. Generally pretty warm by then in the Springs.

No idea if they plan another day with record attempts this year. Once the records have been bumped up quite a bit I think the interest fades, though I think Norm Alvis still wants to go farther than 50k as an old man. :-)
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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i imagine bernoullitrial wants to go further than 50k as well, also as an ''old man.'' 350w for 1hr would probably snag it on a fast track, which i am sure he is capable of doing. then it's all up to figuring out the tech-y stuff.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
i imagine bernoullitrial wants to go further than 50k as well, also as an ''old man.'' 350w for 1hr would probably snag it on a fast track, which i am sure he is capable of doing. then it's all up to figuring out the tech-y stuff.

Didn't Dowsett average 360 to set the WR at sea level? I also think Norm averaged about 320, but there are strip malls that have less frontal area. That guy is just BIG.

Unless you are very large, or an aero turd, 350 will get an age group record done at altitude.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Bernoullitrial wrote:
Title says it..
Which venue do you think would be fastest?
Or an alternative venue in North or South America (2500m max altitude)

Thanks In Advance..

DM me a good email, and I can ask Molly or Rob VH to see if they've got some feedback for you. Molly broke the UCI Hour Record a couple of years ago in Aguascalientes, and I think has been to Colorado Springs as well. RChung might have some insight as well.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Andres drew my attention to this thread. Aguascalientes is faster for Molly and probably most others. The surface is faster, and the inside of the velodrome reliably reaches good hour temperatures (75-80) twice almost every day of the year. The terrestrial elevation of the two velodromes is nearly identical, but the dome over the track in Aguascalientes requires less pressure to inflate than the dome over CoS, so inside Aguas is effectively a 100 feet or so lower than inside CoS. After that the key difference is length--250 in Aguascalientes vs. 333 in CoS. Both lengths are within UCI regulations. On a 250 riders lean more in the turns and that reduces their effective drag relative to a 333. However, on a 333 riders might find it easier to hold their line -- though in practice I think CoS is bumpy enough that holding a good line there is no easier than in Aguas. On a 333 riders will also suffer less cadence fluctuation from turn to straight (this is the flip side of my first point about track length), and for some riders the reduced cadence fluctuation might offer a physiological advantage.

--Rob VH
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Come try out the new Lexus Velodrome in Detroit!
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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efernand wrote:
Come try out the new Lexus Velodrome in Detroit!

I’ve heard it’s great!

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [rvh] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for chiming in Rob.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
Bernoullitrial wrote:
Jens, Thanks...Do you by chance have any data? 10 watts at 50km/h is significant!


I don't, but maybe we can get Kevin to publish his data on his record attempts at Hellyer and Aguascalientes. Maybe he has already -- I haven't searched.

I can say from memory, that the concrete track was about as slow as Oregon chipseal. So tires that were testing at .003 on the rollers were like .0043 on the concrete.

First test in December 2016 I did 45.57km @313 watts. Ave cadence of around 105. cadence only fluctuated by 1-2 rpm per lap. It wasn't really a big deal at all. Cold day as you'd imagine. Temp was about 56 degrees.

Second test on April 29th, 2017. My Garmin shit the bed and I didn't get any data. Yeah, I was pretty pissed! 46.2km on the same gear as before, so a higher cadence. Maybe 107-108. It was windy that day. Windy enough that I got a couple of bruises on my right knee from whacking the top tube when the bike got blown a bit sideways coming out of turn 4. If I had to guess I would have gone around 47km that day if it was calm. Temp was upper 70's, towards 80.

Both Hellyer rides were on a Zipp disc and 808 front. Both clincher with my road TT tires. The record rides were on double FFWD discs with Vittoria Pista CS tires at 200 psi.

The final ride was in Aguascalientes. 49.121km on 277 watts. The 250 was much more to deal with than Hellyer. I was aiming for about 108 rpm average which would have given me 49.5km, but I faded a bit over the last 20 minutes. The cadence variation was a much bigger deal. As much as 4 rpm twice each lap. It was also much more of an issue riding a good, short line on the track. I did a little exploring shall we say. Especially later in the ride as I got tired.

I hadn't been on a 250m track since 1999. We did two days of testing a familiarization before our attempt. I think that with much more time on a 250 track on the lead up I could have gone significantly farther with the same fitness. I wanted to go 50km. I don't think more skill and technique would have given me that much more distance, but I think it would have been enough to maybe get me to 49.5 which as I said was my schedule on the day.

Long story short, don't underestimate the difficulties of riding a perfect line on a 250m track if you aren't used to it.

I know that Molly rides a ginormous gear, but I found that a bigger gear was harder for me as every time I came out of the turns it felt hard to get back on top of the gear for the straight away. In the end I geared down from a 53x14 to a 52x14 and was much happier for that choice.

I was quite surprised by my low power number. I did 315 watts at the district TT in Loyalton (4900') and based on Rob and Molly's data expected to land at about 305 watts in Aguascalientes. I was very OCD about doing zero offsets so I know that was good. It was a new power meter as I had been using a specialized SRM on my Transition for the testing and the BB30 obviously did not fit my BMC. I thought at the time that the calibration might have been off, but I checked that after the fact and it was very close. Since that time I've used it a bunch on my trainer this winter and the gear, cadence, power seem to be right in line with last year on the other PM. I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from that. Maybe a combination of fitness differences and the affect of the turns.

More details at kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com if you are so inclined.

BTW, Norm did not have power for his hour ride. In the hustle bustle of making a last minute position change to be legal he forgot his Garmin. His number was an estimate. Probably a pretty good one.

BTW2, I think that for a properly prepared rider Aguascalientes is faster for sure. I wonder though if somebody with less experience, especially on a steep 250 meter track might go farther in Colorado Springs under the cover, on a warm day than they would in Aguascalientes.

BTW3, they never took the Colorado Springs cover off last year as far as I know. But I don't think that anything about the status of the dome is set in stone so to speak.

BTW4, the Colorado Springs velodrome director was not at all interested in doing an hour record day last year. In fact if you got a group of three or four riders on one day to do hour records, the price would be the same per person as just a one off. No bulk discounts, even though the expenses don't go up much by running multiple riders. In the end it was as cheap or cheaper for us to fly to Aguascalientes and do the attempt there there it would have been to go to Colorado. (We had a large group in Mexico.) FYI, our prices including flying in a UCI commisaire from Colorado for our attempts.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Kevin for that...Very Much Appreciated...and I have watched your ride on YouTube several times.
As you well know...doing it in reality is VERY different than just having the numbers to do it.

Thanks Again
Last edited by: Bernoullitrial: Dec 26, 17 19:33
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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350 w for an hour is a tough effort but doable (on a road position on a indoor trainer)
Now translating that into an effort on a 250m indoor track is another thing entirely.
I think an attempt at Rock Hill would be a failure. 370w at Aero would be dreaming...I think.
Which is what I think would be required at RH.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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Bernoullitrial wrote:
350 w for an hour is a tough effort but doable (on a road position on a indoor trainer)
Now translating that into an effort on a 250m indoor track is another thing entirely.
I think an attempt at Rock Hill would be a failure. 370w at Aero would be dreaming...I think.
Which is what I think would be required at RH.

Does it make sense to go the Springs and just ride a trial attempt. I have wandered down to the Springs track on a Saturday morning and there are just three or four people riding around. Not optimal, but for the price of a plane ticket you could probably just drop in and ride an hour to see what you know and don't know about holding hero hero wattage for an hour without flinching.
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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For me it makes more sense to drive 30 min to Rock Hill and ride 370w for 45 min and see what happens.

Thanks Mike!
Last edited by: Bernoullitrial: Dec 26, 17 19:55
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Bernoullitrial] [ In reply to ]
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On the plus side if you go to rock hill and do 370 for 45 minutes then sit on the sidelines the last 15, you'll still crush my track record. :)

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Aguascalientes Mexico or Colorado Springs For Hour Record [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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My lips are sealed...I don't want to break your RH record.
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