I agree. 3 basic things would make a huge difference:

1) uploading to TrainingPeaks with “lap” splits for each mile, as if we were running outside. Works in strava, but not trainingpeaks for some reason.

2) ability to program run wkos with total lap time, goal lap pace (like bike power in wko mode), give me feedback in real-time about whether I’m on pace for that interval, and then get the lap detail/ feedback into trainingpeaks from an 800 repeat or 1k etc etc

3) a giant “lap” button on the IOS interface (maybe where the bike power up is) or some other way of telling zwift running that I’m starting or ending an effort.

The countdown timer (distance or time) in the upper left+ the HR and pace readout + mile splits with lap HR are just enough to keep me on zwift running.

You can also just toss out training peaks and zwift and just log hours of running and spend more time training and less time analysing

Pretty well all you need to know is in your week over week overall running hours. All the variation pretty well levels out over a week of running simply because we can't really run that much intensity....so you just averaging your average pace for almost all your runs. If you'd do a histogram of minutes per week at different paces and largely bin them into groupings like 400m pace, 1600m pace, 10,000m pace and marathon pace and slower than marathon pace, almost every week would look very similar. There is a reason why most running programs have the biggest component in the low zones.

Oh and for most of us, drop 10 lbs!!!

if i dropped 10 lbs i would be borderline unhealthy!!

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

zwift running suffers from one feature that would make all the difference: zwift controlling the mill. this is the magic that zwift cycling has that running does not. however...

zwift's virtues - run or bike - is that it's multiplayer and it's graphic rich. multiplayer is where it's at. if there was a group run happening outside your door at 6pm on tuesdays it would be very hard for you to sit it out on the couch. likewise "group" runs that happen in the virtual world. it's the glue that gets you from run to run.

secondly, i'm writing you from "the running event" right now, a trade show for the running industry. it's in austin, tx. i just flew here last night from salt lake city. i've been logging my 100/100 runs on treadmills. using the mill's "graphics." oh. my. god.

so, my favorite thing? running out my door. thing #2? running with zwift on a mill. thing #3? this brain dead stuff i've been doing.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Can't really align with this. I have some blocks clearly focused on building a base of distance, and other blocks that pile on the speedwork. Both have value and both would look very different in weekly averages.

I can run 55 miles per week with wildly different minutes per week spent running depending on the goal of that particular week. Your advice is probably right for beginners, but if you're trying to get an edge on the pointy end or get past a plateau that you've hit because every week looks the same I think "just logging hours" isn't gonna get you anywhere useful.

And if I lost 10 lbs I'd look like I was on my deathbed... But I'd be happy to drop 2 or 3.

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

I use Zwift running purely for entertainment.

All of my workouts, if programmed, are done through my watch.

While I agree with your premise, I think the biggest limitation of zwift running compared to cycling is just the difference in dynamic range on the bike versus running. On the bike you can feasibly ride a huge range of speed/power output for quite a while still having a good workout and not considerably changing injury risk. On the run, however, you just can't change pace all that much for more than short bursts. Plus there is little to no draft advantage in running. So whereas on the bike I can grab onto a group and hang and it's super fun, I can't do that running.

So when is someone going to take the plunge and sell a product that allows Zwift to control the mill? There is probably no better place than where you current are to get an answer.

I understand hardware manufacturers are scared of the legal ramifications so they aren't going to do it. But there must be a way to hack into treadmills and create an aftermarket device which will automate the controls. I believe Zwift is sending the correct information so I bet a smart person with a Rasberry Pi could build a receiver and hardwire it into a treadmill to make the process work. As a start up idea such a product would have a reasonable if niche market, In the longer term the goal would be to get treadmill manufactures to include a USB port that would support an aftermarket control unit. This would allow the proliferation of Zwift controllable treadmills without the mill makers having to take on the liability they are so scared of.

realistically i’m not sure if i would want zwift to control the treadmill (for the masses). in order to do that it would require 100% absolutely focus on the interface so you are not shocked when the mill ramps up and you trip and fall.

i myself am disciplined enough to do this when running intervals, and i know most of us here probably are, but you always have to factor in the lowest common denominator, unfortunately.

if they would just allow user custom workouts, essentially the same exact setup for the run as they have on the bike, with some sort of critical run time to replace the ftp (or run ftp for the stryd users) then to me zwift would be essential for treadmill running, for me personally.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

I've hit the max levels too. The only carrot is seeing my points continue to rise.

I continue to run on zwift because I like to run on the courses. I feel like I'll finish a course vs just running for time/distance on a treadmill.

But you're right, there's not much to it. There seems to be less people running than before too.

Treadmills already have preprogrammed workouts that automatically change the speed & incline. this is just taking the control off the treadmill console and onto an external controller. I'd think that you'd still have an "oh shit" button to shut 'er down, just in case.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I love bike Zwift, but I've used the running once and haven't used it after that. Not the same level of engagement as the bike for me, although having others to run with was kinda cool.

I do wonder if it was kind of a beta test for them to see if it would catch fire, and they're seeing that it's not as hot as the cycling aspect of it. Don't blame them though - I'd prefer they do cycling WELL and keep on bringing on more events and worlds rather than hack away at running without TM incline (or pace gasp!) control.

I cannot stand running indoors on a treadmill - I have no luck in focusing on TV and staring at the same poster on the wall is getting old. Zwift running adds enough distraction that I can get to 45mins without going totally insane. By watching the metrics, landscape, other runners, passing bikes on 15% grades and getting a ride-on passes the time away. Until it is controlling the treadmill and calibrated precisely to measure accurate pace, its just a distraction. I can easily get pace variations of +-10sec/km even by using different running shoes that must be changing my gait or/cadence at a given speed. Until it is accurate and sets a level playing field then racing on Zwift would be just a fun run.

The one thing that I have recently found very beneficial is monitoring your HR and seeing the "heads up display" of your HR. With AVG HR per km split (my treadmill does not do that) I have been doing one slow run indoors weekly aimed at keeping my HR on or below a certain target at a certain LSD pace - amazing what slight changes to breathing, cadence, running form, family screaming can do to influence your HR. Gives me something to focus on...I'll keep using Zwift for any treadmill run I am forced to do in winter.

i work for a treadmill mfg. There are baked in programs control speed/incline and virtual running that "follows" a terrain with a real video. A lot of treadmills use an screw with a lower powered motor to control the incline that would have a hard time supporting constant undulation in the road terrain, especially with any rapid response. Legal and safety implication of an outside application controlling the treadmill causes a lot worries. If anything goes wrong, people are always ready to blame the treadmill mfg first. With virtual cycling if there is a glitch that makes your trainer think its on a 20% incline hill, you wont fall off your bike. If there is a software or communication hiccup, that make the treadmill think it is supposed to be at 10% incline or 15 mph, most people don't have the response time to hit the E-stop before its too late. Let be honest how many of you wear the e-stop clip while running like your supposed to?

I wonder if some enterprising TM maker could figure out a safe way to make incline control happen. I have no idea what this could realistically be, but just off the top of my head, something like having to push a big button somewhere in response to a big flashing screen if the TM is going to add more than 2% incline before it actually does it, or before any incline addition after 5%.

For me Zwift running's biggest problem is connectivity. It may just be Android support. People have been asking on the Zwift forum for over a year for Ant+ Android support. No response at all. Instead I have to use Bluetooth. Ok, fine. I bought the Zwift pod, updated the firmware, and it still has connection issues to my S9. Connection drops after an interval, calibration freezes. I spend the first 10mins on the treadmill messing with my phone, and mid-run I have to re-pair the pod multiple times. After the same issues on my 4 zwift runs, I've almost given up. Just to top things off, I have to buy a new Bluetooth HR monitor if I want that data. Normally I wouldnt care, but I would like to complete the Zwift tri academy and they want HR data for all workouts. For $15/month I feel slightly cheated and not sure I want to keep paying that. Might be time to switch.

The game starts at 21, just as it did with cycling when it had fewer levels. All of a sudden the new levels show up and you get a huge lift.

But I hear you about wanting the needle to move.


I reached level 21 a while back too and I still run a ton on Zwift. It is convenient and I especially like the MRC (Monday Run Club) and WOW (Workout Wednesday) run groups. I would never run intervals as hard if not for Zwift. Plus on an easier day I just join a lower group.

North Pole Engineering just released a device called Runn that converts any treadmill into a smart treadmill. Very clever.

https://npe-inc.com/...rt-treadmill-sensor/

I use Zwift for nearly all of my bike training now and have done for a few years and I'd be a bit lost without it.
The running side is currently free if you're already paying for the cycling so I don't worry too much about the added features.

For me Zwift run offers a bit of distraction when I'm on the TM and puts all my metrics - pace, HR, cadence - on the screen. I used to run on the treadmill staring at a piece of paper with my intervals scribbled on it so Zwift run is a step up from that! I do all my long runs outside.

One of the Zwift staff posted on Zwift Runners FB page last week that he was about to take charge of some big changes so hopefully we'll see Zwift run becoming more of a priority next year.

i hope it works well. the treadtracker worked well till the wheel came apart.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Even if I didn't run outside (hello phoenix, lots of sun). I'm not sure I'd be into Zwift running. I do execute treadmill workouts from time to time.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Yup, I am very much seeing changes happening soon. But I have to admit I like what we already have and I would never run as much / as often on a treadmill if not for Zwift. And it is best to not compare it to cycling. :-)

I wish there were more running events. I hope it continues to grow.

Any recommended run routes, that would ideally have unique trails/terrain and/or a higher proportion of runners?

i'll look at that. i have 3 ways i can interface with zwift: a footpod; my treadmill has built in bluetooth; and i installed a CSAFE port. technically, that port should allow for 2-way communication. the only thing that zwift needs to do, in my opinion, is direct the mill to incline when the road inclines, and to slow the mill via some determined quantity as the mill inclines. otherwise, the user always controls the speed. the only way zwift ever controls the speed is to vary whatever your chosen speed is based on the incline/decline, but you always have the capacity to increase/decrease speed.

if zwift simply did that, this would be enough to pretty fully mate the game with the mill. zwift could also, if it wanted to, rubber band some runs, where the group run is always a group run regardless of the differences in abilities. structured training rubber banded runs. i don't know if that would be a good thing or not. but it might. i'll have to noodle that.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman