Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [Kempenaer] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 5:16

Post #126 of 293 (3981 views)

Kempenaer wrote:

g_lev wrote:

OK racing question...

I want to sign up for a race and it gives me category options:

A: 4.0-5.0w/kg
B: 3.0-4.0w/kg

Do I select my category based on my w/kg @ FTP? Or based on what I expect to maintain for the race? If I go by FTP, I would need to select A as my FTP is about 4.4w/kg. But if it's a long race I am not going to maintain over 4w/kg for say a 100km race (I am talking about selecting the category in the Zwift race event signup page, not the ZwiftPower category)

Also I don't quite understand how ZwiftPower uses 95% of whatever 20 minute power you did in your last few races. It's not like everyone is FTP-testing in every race. If you are doing a 50-100km race you are not racing at FTP the whole time obviously. So your best 20 minute power in that race will be much lower than your FTP.

With 4.4 Wkg FTP, you should definitely start in cat. A. Not even close to cat B. level imo...
Regarding the races in cat A. typically the start is not very hard (you should be able to make the first group with ~400W for first 10-30 seconds and then some bursts) The races will only truly open up on any incline, and are determined by 1-5 min power ... don't be a hero in between hills and just follow wheels, you're not going to ride of the front of the A-cat on a flat road. For very long races the avg. power is obviously lower for everyone ... could very well be that you don't even need 4Wkg to finish with/ close to the 1st group in such long races; just be prepared to get dropped in final part of the race ... that's reality for most non-elites

Regarding your 2nd remark; ZP nowadays takes 95% of 20min power of your 3 best performances of the last 3 months in both races AND events.

Yea so I signed up for a Crit City race, in Cat A. I wound up making just on 4.0w/kg for the race effort (not my best performance by any stretch). I was able to hang with the front at the start by cranking it up to around 450 watts and holding for a bit, but then fatigue from the previous few weeks of training pulled me back to a more reasonable place where I just sortof held on for 20 minutes. I finished right in the middle of the cat A rank so I am not going to complain about that. But I also saw on ZwiftPower that there were plenty of Cat Bs that posted faster times than me. Like I was 70th in the ZPower rank for Cat A, but my time would have only been good for like 20th in Cat B.

Anyway I am still learning how this works. I am planning to race again on Friday, but for something a little longer - closer to 40-45 minutes if I can find the right race (i.e. not another 20 minute crit). For a race that long I doubt I'll be making over 4.0w/kg (probably just under). I'll likely still just stay with Cat A and work to improve there.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 5:55

Post #127 of 293 (3959 views)

So I did some ZwiftPower snooping and found your race (hope that doesn't come across as too weird).

In terms of category for Zwift racing, as it stands now all that matters is 20 minute power, and more specifically, 95% of 20 minute power. So for your race, your 95% of 20 min power was 3.77 which is squarely in the Cat B range. I realize 95% of 20 min power, in a zwift race, is not really that good a proxy for FTP, but it's what the current system uses.

In terms of why your time would have only been only 20th in Cat B. That is probably mostly due to pack size, once you got dropped from the lead pack in Cat A, you weren't traveling as fast anymore, even though you may have been putting out similar power #'s as before. Had you raced in the Cat B race, judging by your power profile from that race, you most likely would have held the main pack the whole race and your time would have been faster, even though your power #'s would have been similar.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 6:36

Post #128 of 293 (3946 views)

g_lev wrote:

Kempenaer wrote:

g_lev wrote:

OK racing question...

I want to sign up for a race and it gives me category options:

A: 4.0-5.0w/kg
B: 3.0-4.0w/kg

Do I select my category based on my w/kg @ FTP? Or based on what I expect to maintain for the race? If I go by FTP, I would need to select A as my FTP is about 4.4w/kg. But if it's a long race I am not going to maintain over 4w/kg for say a 100km race (I am talking about selecting the category in the Zwift race event signup page, not the ZwiftPower category)

Also I don't quite understand how ZwiftPower uses 95% of whatever 20 minute power you did in your last few races. It's not like everyone is FTP-testing in every race. If you are doing a 50-100km race you are not racing at FTP the whole time obviously. So your best 20 minute power in that race will be much lower than your FTP.

With 4.4 Wkg FTP, you should definitely start in cat. A. Not even close to cat B. level imo...
Regarding the races in cat A. typically the start is not very hard (you should be able to make the first group with ~400W for first 10-30 seconds and then some bursts) The races will only truly open up on any incline, and are determined by 1-5 min power ... don't be a hero in between hills and just follow wheels, you're not going to ride of the front of the A-cat on a flat road. For very long races the avg. power is obviously lower for everyone ... could very well be that you don't even need 4Wkg to finish with/ close to the 1st group in such long races; just be prepared to get dropped in final part of the race ... that's reality for most non-elites

Regarding your 2nd remark; ZP nowadays takes 95% of 20min power of your 3 best performances of the last 3 months in both races AND events.

Yea so I signed up for a Crit City race, in Cat A. I wound up making just on 4.0w/kg for the race effort (not my best performance by any stretch). I was able to hang with the front at the start by cranking it up to around 450 watts and holding for a bit, but then fatigue from the previous few weeks of training pulled me back to a more reasonable place where I just sortof held on for 20 minutes. I finished right in the middle of the cat A rank so I am not going to complain about that. But I also saw on ZwiftPower that there were plenty of Cat Bs that posted faster times than me. Like I was 70th in the ZPower rank for Cat A, but my time would have only been good for like 20th in Cat B.

Anyway I am still learning how this works. I am planning to race again on Friday, but for something a little longer - closer to 40-45 minutes if I can find the right race (i.e. not another 20 minute crit). For a race that long I doubt I'll be making over 4.0w/kg (probably just under). I'll likely still just stay with Cat A and work to improve there.

Great work! just stay in the A's for now and see which courses suit you; and learn "how to race".
Be aware though that there are a lot of very strong riders in cat A (lately I see multiple pro's in basically all races I enter), just accept that these guys can crank out huge power over 1-5 min (which is what determines most races). Problem is just that the rider-level/gap in cat A is too large.
On the upside though, I don't see a lot of blatant cheating in A; something which seems more apparent in other cat's from what I hear.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [MRid] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 6:54

Post #129 of 293 (3940 views)

MRid wrote:

So I did some ZwiftPower snooping and found your race (hope that doesn't come across as too weird).

In terms of category for Zwift racing, as it stands now all that matters is 20 minute power, and more specifically, 95% of 20 minute power. So for your race, your 95% of 20 min power was 3.77 which is squarely in the Cat B range. I realize 95% of 20 min power, in a zwift race, is not really that good a proxy for FTP, but it's what the current system uses.

In terms of why your time would have only been only 20th in Cat B. That is probably mostly due to pack size, once you got dropped from the lead pack in Cat A, you weren't traveling as fast anymore, even though you may have been putting out similar power #'s as before. Had you raced in the Cat B race, judging by your power profile from that race, you most likely would have held the main pack the whole race and your time would have been faster, even though your power #'s would have been similar.

No worries on the snooping. If I wanted to stay totally anonymous my screen name wouldn't be so close to my real name.

What you say makes perfect sense. While I can make almost 4.3-4.4w/kg in an FTP test, I can see how ZwiftPower's calculation wouldn't put me there the way they do it. And yea, about 10 minutes into the race I got dropped from the front pack and I spent the last 10 minutes either alone, or with one or two other people who seemed to stay in my draft most of the way, and only occasionally pulling. Granted it's impossible to know if they were doing that on purpose or if it's just an artifact of the way the game works. Clearly I have a lot to learn.

When I race again this week in a longer event maybe I'll pick Cat B and see how well I can hang with the main pack. My 20 minute power in a longer race won't be more than 4w/kg so I should be "safe" in Cat B

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 7:22

Post #130 of 293 (3932 views)

xtrpickels wrote:

Some questions on connectivity: I've tried to search and feel I've been getting mixed information.

Set Up: Circa 2012 Macbook Pro. A touch slow to get running, but runs well once logged in. Good old-fashion Bluetooth.
Trainer: Cycleops H2 Ant+ / BLE
Powermeter: Ant+ Specialized Quarq
HRM: Wahoo Ant+ / BLE

Connectivity Option 1: Companion App
I've used the companion app to connect the BLE devices to Zwift. This seems to work well and is fairly responsive. However, with this set up I do not have the option to calibrate the trainer, nor do I have the ability to connect the power meter.

Connectivity Option 2: Ant+
I also have an Ant+ stick on a USB extension. This works well in that I can connect all my devices and also calibrate the trainer. However, this set-up seems just a hair slower to respond and therefore good but not perfect.

Connectivity Question: BLE Dongle
The question: Can I add a BLE Dongle to this set-up and get the best of both worlds? The ability to calibrate the trainer through BLE in addition to the better response of BLE. My Quarq and H2 report essentially identical numbers, so I am not concerned with having the Quarq connected and can just run that to my headunit.

I've since bought 2 BTLE dongles.
1. BlueGiga- Was recognized by the computer in the structure, but could not (Easily) get it to act as the Bluetooth receiver.
2. IOGear- Worked Immediately upon plugging in.

However, Zwift will not recognize the Bluetooth 4.0 my 2011 Macbook Pro, such that while it controls the trainer, it does not give me the option to calibrate the powermeter. (Which was the functionality I was looking for).

I'm going to keep trying this set-up, as because it is now native to the computer (no need for the companion app), I can pair to both Ant+ and BT at the same time. Additionally, hopefully this stops the BT drop-outs that have been plaguing me while racing.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [Kempenaer] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 9:34

Post #131 of 293 (3901 views)

Find in B that a minute at 350-400 followed by hang for 5 minutes at around 300 and you can make the B pack, There will always be B who make the A pack as they really should be in A.

In races I can hang with the mix of B and A that pack has but, what happens in every race is with one or two laps to go the top guys hit 1 minute power than back it up with 5 minute power that I can't keep up with get dropped.

Its more that one minute surge, anyway thats bike racing.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [stevie g] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 10:03

Post #132 of 293 (3888 views)

stevie g wrote:

Find in B that a minute at 350-400 followed by hang for 5 minutes at around 300 and you can make the B pack, There will always be B who make the A pack as they really should be in A.

In races I can hang with the mix of B and A that pack has but, what happens in every race is with one or two laps to go the top guys hit 1 minute power than back it up with 5 minute power that I can't keep up with get dropped.

Its more that one minute surge, anyway thats bike racing.

At least, that's one aspect of zwift racing comparable to real like bike racing. For the vast majority of real bike races, it's repeatable 3-8 minute power that matters. Only difference being when one attacks in real life, presumably one has taken it easy for a good long while, riding below 60% FTP. Whereas in Zwift, that effort is after one has already maintained at least 85% FTP for the last 5 minutes, just to stay toward the front of the pack.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [echappist] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 10:14

Post #133 of 293 (3882 views)

yeah thats the challenge trying to make those efforts after being at near FTP for the thing

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [stevie g] [ In reply to ]

May 5, 20 12:48

Post #134 of 293 (3851 views)

That indeed seems to happen and is in my view the biggest drawback compared to road racing where you can really hide in the peloton.
Actually now I think of it, zwift racing feels more like continuous echelon/crosswind racing (as we're used to in the Netherlands) where the race happens at the back of the group most of the time.

You should be aware though that in Zwift you'll have a fairly broad power range that will keep you in the draft. When you gain experience, you should be able to minimize your efforts without dropping!

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [Kempenaer] [ In reply to ]

May 7, 20 7:27

Post #135 of 293 (3807 views)

I have a question here about ride time with warming up for events.
So I have been doing quite a few group rides, Usually I check in 10-15 minutes before and warm up there, I never really paid close attention to total ride time and Strava, but yesterday I did, and what I found was that it does not include the warm up time, so the official ride was 45 minutes and that it what is recorded on Strava and Zwift, but when I go to the companion app it shows 56 minutes (so 11 minute warm up), not a big deal losing 11 minutes but if you do multiple rides a week and say warm up 15-20 minutes each time you can end up losing over an hour a week on Strava and TP.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions about this?.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [trener1] [ In reply to ]

May 7, 20 8:15

Post #136 of 293 (3793 views)

You can add a manual activity to Strava or join in the last minute as it will still create an activity and upload for the time you rode before joining the event and being put in the pens. I use Garmin Connect as my main source and record activities on my watch.

Nanoo Nanoo

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]

May 7, 20 8:59

Post #137 of 293 (3773 views)

Should I do a spin down on my Wahoo Kickr before every ride on Zwift? I don't have a power meter.

Last edited by: MikeyG: May 7, 20 9:00

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [trener1] [ In reply to ]

May 7, 20 9:14

Post #138 of 293 (3765 views)

trener1 wrote:

I have a question here about ride time with warming up for events.
So I have been doing quite a few group rides, Usually I check in 10-15 minutes before and warm up there, I never really paid close attention to total ride time and Strava, but yesterday I did, and what I found was that it does not include the warm up time, so the official ride was 45 minutes and that it what is recorded on Strava and Zwift, but when I go to the companion app it shows 56 minutes (so 11 minute warm up), not a big deal losing 11 minutes but if you do multiple rides a week and say warm up 15-20 minutes each time you can end up losing over an hour a week on Strava and TP.
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions about this?.

If you have it set to auto import to Strava/TP, then when you stop your warmup (by clicking "Go To Event"), then Zwift ends that activity and will send it automatically to Strava and TP. So you should see 2 separate activities

ETA: I see you mean you are going to the pens 10-15 minutes early. In that case, it won't get recorded. What I do is just ride around one of the courses for my warmup, then go to the event with around 2-5 minutes to start. If you do that, your warmup will get logged as a separate activity

Last edited by: MRid: May 7, 20 9:16

Zwift Run question [ In reply to ]

May 8, 20 9:00

Post #139 of 293 (3720 views)

New to running on Zwift. Want to get it set up.

What is the deal with gradient? There are hills in the game, how does that pair (or not) with the treadmill?

TIA

Re: Zwift Run question [Pmswanepoel] [ In reply to ]

May 8, 20 19:13

Post #140 of 293 (3679 views)

It doesn’t. Gradient has no effect on anything related to Zwift running

Re: Zwift Run question [MRid] [ In reply to ]

May 8, 20 22:11

Post #141 of 293 (3645 views)

So the virtual hills when running on Zwift are moot, essentially?

Re: Zwift Run question [Pmswanepoel] [ In reply to ]

May 9, 20 9:44

Post #142 of 293 (3627 views)

yes. In fact, if you run up the Alp, or Mountain route, or something similar, you'll routinely pass most of the cyclists.

Re: Zwift Run question [Pmswanepoel] [ In reply to ]

May 9, 20 10:02

Post #143 of 293 (3622 views)

Pmswanepoel wrote:

So the virtual hills when running on Zwift are moot, essentially?

Correct.

Nanoo Nanoo

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 6:19

Post #144 of 293 (3526 views)

Got to get sandbagging sorted, top 5 in B all filtered on zwift power from B. Meaning our second pack was the first pack bu the race dynamic is screwed.

The sandbaggeers still are in the results on Zwift companion and they affect the race. Each one of them was in the top 10 in A less than 15 seconds being the A winner, meaning they raced an A race.

Q1 why do people who do this do it and there must be some on ST who do it?

Q2 why does zwift support it?

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [stevie g] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 6:38

Post #145 of 293 (3514 views)

Unpopular opinion: I think this is a feature, not a bug. And, frankly, why zwiftpower exists.

I think it is important to remember that this is a video game. It's fun. And kinda like bike racing, but not really.

The psychological affect of not knowing if the folks up the road are "real" or not (are they gonna get DQ'ed?) makes you race in the moment in whatever pack you're in. You could be in 20th place and not really know if you are racing for the win or not. In a real bike race, it is pretty easy to throw in the towel when you get dropped from the main pack. In zwift, there is substantial incentive to fight on and try to beat your chase mates.

I'll also add that there seems to be less of this in the A races. A lot of those monsters are actually monsters.

With that, I'm off to do the Innsbruckring race now.

Andy

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [AndyPeterson] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 8:02

Post #146 of 293 (3493 views)

Good points and I do hang a lot tougher on road when if dropped just DNF or roll around before coffee. Using zwift power you always end up a few places higher after the DQ.

A pace is serious though!

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [stevie g] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 8:21

Post #147 of 293 (3489 views)

stevie g wrote:

Got to get sandbagging sorted, top 5 in B all filtered on zwift power from B. Meaning our second pack was the first pack bu the race dynamic is screwed.

The sandbaggeers still are in the results on Zwift companion and they affect the race. Each one of them was in the top 10 in A less than 15 seconds being the A winner, meaning they raced an A race.

Q1 why do people who do this do it and there must be some on ST who do it?

Q2 why does zwift support it?

Happened to me yesterday (and the other week too).
Thought I was in the lead pack of B's (co mingled with A's). At one point we slightly caught the "front pack" and could see a couple B's up the road. Ultimately they were filtered out on Zwiftpower.

I don't like that Zwift Power filters out users without Heart Rate data. We have a 50% filter rate in my race yesterday.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 8:26

Post #148 of 293 (3486 views)

I get that its no perfect, but it can be better and that there will be people who are new and simply don't know. Think the new rules are planning to filter or upgrade them in flight.

Suppose it pays to not take it too seriously, though you do ask yourself the question of why?

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [stevie g] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 9:38

Post #149 of 293 (3460 views)

Zwift noob here. So do some races use the zwiftpower verification and others do not? A buddy of mine jumped into an Austin Driveway Series crit last night, but I don't see it listed in the event list on zwiftpower.

The D race is supposedly for those between 1.0 and 2.5 W/Kg FTP, but the D race results from last night are full of people 2.8 and above, some as high as 3.6. For these, I assume there's no protection for sandbagging.

Re: Zwift newbies thread (6 weeks and less) [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]

May 15, 20 10:51

Post #150 of 293 (3447 views)

yes, it's up to the race organizer

ETA: Though pretty much all end up on Zwift Power. The KOA private race series was the only one I knew of, where the results were not always displayed on ZP. But now, some of those are.

Last edited by: MRid: May 15, 20 10:55

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