Perhaps. But this 11-speed cassette "mod.'" (if you can call it that) can work with pretty much on any shimano compatible 8/9/10 speed rear wheel in existence. Doesn't matter if it's zipp or flo, or black or silver ... :^)

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You'd need to adjust the limit screws. Definitely workable, but not quite as simple and elegant as you're making it sound. Especially for bike racer types who might switch back and forth between training wheels and race wheels 3 times a week.

Of course.

True.

Unless you have a quiver full of 8/9/10-speed wheels (all with 10-speed cassettes mounted) and no 11-speed wheels, and this my case. Then it would be totally workable even if you need to switch wheels frequently.

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Hello Donzo98 and All,

A quick eMail to WheelBuilder info@wheelbuilder.com and send them a photo of your hub for an answer on best way to proceed.

WheelBuilder can redish your wheel and upgrade your hub to 11spd or even relace your rim to a new 11spd hub of your choice.

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/



Cheers,

Neal

+1 mph Faster

So, I'm wondering why you can't just remove the hub from the wheel, chuck it up in a lathe and turn down the face of the shoulder an additional .071" deep so that the 11-speed cassette will fit?? Seems like a simple fix to me...

In theory, you can. But to make an 8/9/10-speed zipp freehub accept a shimano 11-speed cassette, you would have to remove at least 1.6mm of material in that area. When I looked closely at my 2006 zipp hub, to me it appeared that doing that mod would compromise structural integrity. Because you would end up with some very thin areas. And aluminum alloy is not particularly strong, especially when thinned out.

Related topic, I wrote up a detailed post on exactly how to make 11-speed shimano cassettes fit on older 8/9/10-speed wheels for free (or cheap). Works great. Link here:
http://darkspeedworks.com/blog.htm


Greg @ dsw

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Thanks for the feedback Greg. I did the mod that I described on a Zipp Zedd Tech 404 10-speed hub (probably 2006 or 2007) this week after the gurus at my LBS told me they thought it would work. I removed 1.8mm from the face of that shoulder and everything lined up well. There's plenty of space between the large cassette and the spokes and the derailleur also clears well. So far, it seems to work fine. I'm doing a disc wheel this week. I'll try to take pics during the process and pass along what I learn. I didn't notice any ultra thin areas like you described, although admittedly, 1.8mm is more than I thought it would be... I'll take a pic or two of the mod also, if you're interested in seeing it.

Thanks for the link too...good info there.

Yes, I would be very interested to get more info and pics. Did you file it by hand, or send it out to a machine shop? If it was machined, what did that end up costing?


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Turned it on a lathe. I wouldn't recommend filing it although I'm guessing it could be done (it would take a loooong time). Cost for me, nothing. I have access to a shop and some very talented machinists. However, it's a very quick job for a good machinist, so I can't imagine it would have cost more than $25.

Won't that put the largest cog closer to the spokes?

Yes, it moves the largest cog exactly 1.8mm (.071") closer to the spokes. After machining the hub, we re-assembled it and put the cog/cassette back on. The largest cog does not touch the spokes, even with the chain on it. Furthermore, the derailleur doesn't come close to the spokes either so, it works fine. I'm machining the disc wheel hub tonight. I'll take pics of the process and re-post sometime this week. I'll also take pics of the 404 spoke wheel with cassette as soon as possible so that everybody can see it.

On another note, I called the Wheelbuilder.com guys and vetted this out with them. They couldn't think of a reason why this wasn't a good way to go, other than the fact that the dis-assembly process and subsequent machining may be a bit more difficult than the average cyclist can/will be willing to attempt. I can live with that...

Any chance your hub machining services are for hire?

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

New question, how did you decide on the 1.8mm dimension for the freehub body machining?
My measurements seemed to indicate that 1.65mm of material removed from my '06 zipp hub would be sufficient.

And, yes, for $25, that's not a bad mod.
Let me know as well if your machine shop is for hire ...


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1.8mm (actually 1.85mm) was chosen because of this:
"The fix on some wheels is to get an 11-speed freehub body and a different set of axle end caps or spacers or a new 11-speed axle, but not all generations within a given brand are interchangeable. The fix is to interchange the freehub bodies and put more spacing on the axle’s drive end and less spacing on the axle’s non-drive end. Then you’d re-dish the wheel more to the drive side. I recently went through this with Zipp, and the re-dish amount was 1.85mm. Thing is, only 2012 and later Zipp wheels can be converted to 11-speed.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/...#ZYxttyAmelJXmAez.99"

And because Zipp sells a spacer for their 11 speed hubs so that you can use a 10 speed cassette. The thickness of that spacer? 1.85mm



I'll check on this, but I must caution you...after looking at Zipp's timeline of free hubs, I'm coming to the conclusion that there are some fairly big differences with them. As it turns out, my free hubs are the 182/208 Shimano Hubs, which were sold from 2005-2008 (see below or go to http://www.zipp.com/...ify/hub_cassette.php). I know my conversion works for them, but i'm not sure about the others, so there would be some question until we did it and verified it. It's risky, because if it doesn't work, your free hub will be trashed and you'll have to buy a new one. For me, it was worth the risk, because I didn't want to buy new wheels....

One more note, it looks like the Flash Point 10 speed Hubs will also be an easy mod...i.e. there's a lot of real estate that can be removed.

Ok, we did the disc wheel last night. It turned out great...here are some steps of the process:

1. First, you must chuck up the hub in a lathe and indicate in so you know that it's true and spinning perfectly straight. We did this by chucking up the hub and fitting a pin through the shaft hole of the hub. It's best to use a pin, so that you know you're indicating off of a perfect cylinder. The pin should fit snugly in the hub with NO wobble.

2. Before turning the lathe on, move the cutting tool in to the surface of the splines. You don't want to cut into the splines very deeply. But I've found the splines are not perfectly cylindrical, so there will be some re-surfacing of some of them. Then, slowly move the tool up to (what I'll call) the shoulder of the hub. This is the surface that the largest cog rests against. At this point you want to ZERO the tool, so that you know how much you are taking off when your start cutting the hub. It might be helpful to turn the lathe by hand to make sure you have clearance all the way around.

3. Back the tool away from the shoulder. You can now turn the lathe on and slowly advance the tool by hand back to the shoulder. Since you ZEROed the tool at the shoulder, you'll know exactly how much metal you're removing. You'll want to remove .071", which is 1.8mm.

4. After you've cut the material away, back the tool away from the shoulder and turn off the machine. You can now remove the Hub from the lathe chuck. And your hub is now finished and ready to accept an 11-speed cassette. As you can see below, there is lots of material left over to support the cassette.



I'll upload more pics after I've had a chance to re-assemble the hub to the wheel and load the 11-speed cassette...

Great info and great pics, thanks. Where are located approximately? You should ask your machine shop if they want to start a small side business. Because, for 25 bucks, that is a pretty good fix ...

But it would be interesting to see a pic of a zipp wheel with this mod (more a spoked wheel than a disc--discs don't have as many clearance issues) mounted on a bike with the RD and chain positioned in the biggest cog of an 11-23 cassette (11-23 because small large cogs can get the RD closer to the spokes than bigger large cogs) just to see how much RD-to-spoke clearance there is. Hopefully, there is plenty.


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Yep, I'll get more pics posted tonight or this weekend. What version of HUB do you have?

We have two. One is identical to yours, the other is an 07 or 08, and it is the one that I have more concern about. It looks like if you remove 1.7 to 1.8 mm of material the cassette might even rub on the hub body. Then, there is the ramped nature of the grooves, not sure how those could be milled out. See pic:




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Looks to me like this wont work on 188 hubs. What is a lip and kind of flange on the 182 that is pictured, has been replaced with a much narrower lip and now a rubber seal.

Here's the page with all the hub drawings. 188 V9 are already 11 speed compatible. Its the earlier 188 versions that many people would have.

http://zipp.com/...e/hub_dimensions.php

Thanks, those pdfs were helpful.

The oddest thing: the hub I pictured above is a late 2007 or an early 2008. Oddly, it seems to have a 182 rear hub body with a 188 freehub. It was never modified, so I can't quite figure out why this is.

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This one looks really tight, but I also see real estate beyond where the spline ends. So, we take the shoulder down all the way to the end of the spline and see how much material that would remove OR I'm left wondering if we could remove less than 1.8mm (say .9mm or .035") and essentially split the difference with the smallest cog. Thoughts?

I believe the groove between the shoulder face and the hub is inconsequential. Essentially it just serves to make a virtual corner between the surface of the spline and the shoulder, so that the largest cog will seat all the way against the face of the shoulder. Obviously, your other HUB, can easily be done. If you were to send me both hubs, I could take some measurements of the one pictured above and try to understand what the differences are.

That is all possible. Where are you approximately? Would your shop want to do a couple more of these mods?

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I hate you. Why because I wish I had thought of this. I have access to a machine shop and could have gotten this done for free. What did I do ? I spent over $ 400 doing two wheels. I hate when I don't use my brain.

I would be interested as well. Mine is a first generation firecrest hub. 188 v6 or v7 I believe. Also willing to pay for return shipping of the hub of course.