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Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions
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I'm looking for a good all around wheelset that can be used under any conditions (wet, windy, hilly, poor road quality...). Ignoring price and weight (I know the Zipps are more expensive and 300g lighter), I wanted to see if Slowtwitch's collective wisdom could answer some questions:

1. Which is more aero? I cannot seem to find a direct comparison?
2. How is the breaking on the Zipp 404FC, especially on wet roads?
3. How do the 2 wheels hold up on rough roads?
4. Does anyone have any experience riding either or both and care to share their thoughts? Which is the better all around wheel?

For some background, I am about 130lb and generally end up riding on rolling terrain (not mountainous but not flat either).

Thanks!!
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [PaavoNurmi] [ In reply to ]
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1. there is no direct comparison as of yet. I would put money on the 404FC being a bit more aero, possibly a lot more (with a lot being in the context of decent aero wheels, so..not that much)

2. I don't know

3. the jet is a normal aluminum rim, so it will hold up like any other wheel. the zipp is top of the line, carefully engineered carbon rim. so, probably fine there too.

4. I've ridden Jets, good wheels. If I had infinite money I would probably pick the zipp 404 FC though. It is nice however, having aluminum rim race wheels, as you don't have to swap out brake pads.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, Jack.
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I race with 404FC wheels, and I don't swap out my brake pads. I have yet to warp the time-space continuum by doing so.

Occasionally I get a squeak, and the pads wear faster, but they work. Not sure about the rain, as then I'll use the old 404s, as they are shod with slightly less fragile tires.
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [RebeccaCreekKid] [ In reply to ]
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I think the problem with not changing pads is that your 404FC brake track may wear out sooner. How much sooner, I do not know, but you might want to inquire.

RebeccaCreekKid wrote:
I race with 404FC wheels, and I don't swap out my brake pads. I have yet to warp the time-space continuum by doing so.

Occasionally I get a squeak, and the pads wear faster, but they work. Not sure about the rain, as then I'll use the old 404s, as they are shod with slightly less fragile tires.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [RebeccaCreekKid] [ In reply to ]
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If you train on aluminum rims and race on carbon braking surface rims you should change brake pads. The reason is the pads will get little pieces of aluminum in them from using them on aluminum rims. If you then use those pads on a carbon surface you are asking for trouble. As in damaged wheels.
Sure you will stop with those pads but over time your 2700 dollar race wheels will be ruined from not spending 50 bucks on carbon only pads and 5 minutes of changing them out.
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [PaavoNurmi] [ In reply to ]
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I really like HED products but after seeing my son race on his 404's in the last three months I can say it is no contest. It is an easy choice, the 404FC CC are a step ahead of the Jets.

Sergio

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.


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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [Sergio Escutia] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks again to all for the replies. If anyone else has any thoughts or direct comparisons keep 'em coming.
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I think the problem with not changing pads is that your 404FC brake track may wear out sooner. How much sooner, I do not know, but you might want to inquire.

RebeccaCreekKid wrote:
I race with 404FC wheels, and I don't swap out my brake pads. I have yet to warp the time-space continuum by doing so.

Occasionally I get a squeak, and the pads wear faster, but they work. Not sure about the rain, as then I'll use the old 404s, as they are shod with slightly less fragile tires.


Assuming your other wheels have metal brake track, there's another risk, or so I've been told: your pads can pick up micro bits of metal, which will then tear into the carbon track when you brake, with potentially quite nasty consequences.

[OOPS - ForUm dude mentioned above, apols for rehash]
Last edited by: rrkid: Jun 3, 11 12:30
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [PaavoNurmi] [ In reply to ]
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Both are fantastic wheels. I've raced the Jet 6's this season and absolutely love them (haven't ridden 404FC). Build quality is amazing and incredibly strong. Majority of road racing for me happens in the spring/early summer where weather this year has been horrendous. Having the alloy brake tracks has allowed me to race these wheels with full confidence in all conditions. Pain to true as you have to remove the tire/ rim strip, but this hasn't been an issue as I haven't yet been able to get them out of true!

Biggest drawback to the Jets is a side effect of their construction... they fill up with water in rainy conditions. They take up a significant amount of liquid, perhaps as much as 100mL (or maybe more). Doesn't make a huge difference as far as I can tell, as it creeps up on you gradually. Hasn't held me back in any races this year, but it is annoying to hear your wheels make a sloshing sound while you're servicing your bike.
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [Sergio Escutia] [ In reply to ]
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Sergio Escutia wrote:
I really like HED products but after seeing my son race on his 404's in the last three months I can say it is no contest. It is an easy choice, the 404FC CC are a step ahead of the Jets.

Sergio

Why?


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [Sergio Escutia] [ In reply to ]
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Sergio Escutia wrote:
I really like HED products but after seeing my son race on his 404's in the last three months I can say it is no contest. It is an easy choice, the 404FC CC are a step ahead of the Jets.

Sergio

At some level, and I say this having just bought a set of Jet 6/9s, I would certainly hope, at approx 2x the price, that the 404 FC CC really are a step ahead!
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [PaavoNurmi] [ In reply to ]
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the 2011 hed jet 6 looks very similar in shape to the 404 firecrest
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [PaavoNurmi] [ In reply to ]
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I own a set of the older Jet 6s (not the current shape). Trained for several months on them on my Speed Concept until I recently bought a 404 firecrest front just for racing (paired with a disc on the rear). Because of the brake pad issue and my own laziness, the 404 fc has just stayed on the bike, paired with the Jet 6 rear for training. Unfortunately, it's hard to give you much of an answer because I don't have the same tire on the 404 and who knows how much of the ride quality differential I notice might be due strictly to that. There does seem to be quite a difference with the 404 being noticeably less harsh on my chip and seal roads. Also, my standard daily training routes seem to be going by a minute or two faster ... but that could be fitness or weather or the tire. Don't have enough time on the wheel to tell. Haven't ridden it in the rain. I have raced it in a ten mile TT that had a pretty dicey crosswind. It's a course I've raced 25 times at least and, relative to known competitors and how I usually stack up against them, I was faster, winning my age group and finishing higher up in the overall. I would normally have used a Jet 9 front wheel for that race.

It does seem lighter. The front hub is like jewelry compared to my non-Flamme Rouge HED hubs. The wheel makes an awesome hissing sound on smooth pavement ... sounds a bit like a turbocharger. Very cool.

I haven't had any issues with either the Jets or the 404 FC that would cause me to question the durability of either. I've trained on and raced HED wheels almost exclusively for the last three years and I've been VERY happy with them. The jury's still out on the 404 FC, but so far it's looking like a winner.
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Re: Zipp 404FC vs Hed Jet 60: Some questions [PaavoNurmi] [ In reply to ]
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1. Which is more aero? I cannot seem to find a direct comparison?
2. How is the breaking on the Zipp 404FC, especially on wet roads?
3. How do the 2 wheels hold up on rough roads?
4. Does anyone have any experience riding either or both and care to share their thoughts? Which is the better all around wheel?

1. Likely the 404
2. Braking is solid
3. Both fare well
4. I ride the 808/Stinger and Jet 9 versions, opting for the 808FC ... better handling and aerodynamics, cannot comment on long term durability but so far so good
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