I won 3 races last year. I'm in the M40-44 and while still faster then the majority of AGers, unless the race has a bunch of 3rd or 4th tier elites, I'm not sniffing the stink off of the top tier elites in major races.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Just winning "a bunch of races" doesn't necessarily make you elgible for your elite card...you need to have high placings in multiple USAT sanctioned races that offer an elite/ pro prize purse (or have a top 5/10 finish at Nationals/Worlds).

Heck, off the top of my head, I can only think of three races total in the state of Wisconsin (where I race) that offer a prize purse...winning all the other races only get you a trophy;)

-Scott

You mean guys like the ultimate sand-bagger Tim Hola? Or the new version, Dave Slavinski? They're kind of old(er) at this point, but I don't understand their approach.

LOL, I pulled myself out of Elite Amateur divisions so I don't get embarrassed. Just took myself out of St. Anthonys elite division as I don't think I will hit 1:55 for an Oly.

I forgot to drop down to AG last year at Toughman and MurphysLaws spanked me. I think I came in second to last in elite....I felt embarrassed.

Look at Chris Thomas. He smokes the fields and he doesn't go to Pro. Great guy too.

Ha! Hola won the '09 Halfmax by, get this, over 11 minutes. 10th place was a solid half hour behind. He dropped a 3:59:30 on our asses in an epic downpour and delay that included a flooded stretch of road in which we had to dismount. Sand-bagger supreme.

He seems like a really nice guy so I am not commenting on his character. He is just in a different league than the rest of us, yet continues to race in our league.

And those races would need to have >5000 in money, and you'd have to finish top 3 and within 8% of winning pro time in three of those races.

It's a bit harder to turn pro than it was a few years ago. I guess you could handpick your races, but you'd still need to be fairly legit to be finishing top 3 amateurs at lifetime series races, etc. Last year at Philly the top amateur beat Matty Reed, and the second place guy was like 10 seconds back of him. Same thing I think at Memphis in May.

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Twitter | Kancman | Blog

I have won a handful of races and one big one. I might try for my elite card this summer. My running background helps me out a lot. That being said. I am just finishing up my college career and I am ready to be done. Racing, if you are racing for something at a high level, is pretty stressful, I'd say just as much as I physically beat myself down. I'm not sure if I'll be ready to dump the competitiveness. Once you get serious, it's hard to look at a race and not want to win.

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USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

I stayed in the elite Amateurs and don't expect to go anywhere near 1:55 - maybe 2:07-2:09 depending on the wind - last year was pretty windy on the bike. Isn't the qualifying time 2:15? You won't embarrass yourself, especially if you are even remotely thinking 1:55. There will be people like myself to bring up the rear or middle, I don't mind.

Nope, not thinking 1:55, thinking more like 2:05.

Zoned out last year on the bike and forgot to pedal through the golf course...I snapped my aerobars on the bike out and was so focused on the creaking of my bars that I wasn't paying attention to my power/speed.


Anyhow, I think the biggest reason Hola and THomas aren't getting their cards is age. Also, Chris Thomas has a successful business going in CT and the AG wins probably help him as far as his relationship with Timex and potential clients.

It's not that you win... it's who you beat to win.

Lots of big fishes in little ponds.

Wow.

I think there is still a gap to cross for many between being a top tier amateur and being competitive with the pro field. I qualified for an elite card at Timberman this year, but finished 20 min back of Potts, wasn't like I was going to win the race or make any cash if I were a pro, so at the moment I don't really see the point.

Exactly - there is fast and then there is "pro fast".

I am with Lavery on this one as well. I was in the same race and at the front end in Timberman and had a good all around season last year. Family has come first for me and that was a huge factor for not taking the plunge. Also it was pointed out that the likes of Potts smoked the rest of us by 20 minutes, that's not pro in my book. I would say the day you make a steady living at the sport it's your profession...that's my own definition though.

I can't believe that 2:15 would make you and elite amateur,maybe take ten minutes off that time and you may get away with it.

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Being a "pro" has nothing to do with making a living off the sport. It's about challenging yourself in competition. Nothing is worse than an age-grouper who won't move up to the "pro" ranks because they like "winning". Placing first in your age group or first overall amateur is not winning if 10 pros finished ahead of you. Since USAT doesn't force athletes to move up, everyone should have chutzpah to move up if they are walloping their competition in the AG ranks and/or they're spending an obscene amount of time, effort, and money on the sport detracting from other important things in life, such as family, friends, and a career.

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-Amy
Powder7 Ski Shop, Golden, Colorado

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How about those age groupers who have a job,a family and don't spend shitloads of time and money on the sport but still beat the shit out of most people?Why do should they HAVE TO turn pro or go elite if this sport is not the most important thing to them.I know a bunch of people who are really fast but would never think of turning pro because they are not pro athletes but are just guys who are faster than the other age groupers.

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"Placing first in your age group or first overall amateur is not winning if 10 pros finished ahead of you"



I wasn't insinuating that I or anyone in the same position is "winning" anything, it was a comment on the definition (my own) of what it means to be a professional. I have a job, a family and a life beyond the sport, it's not my profession, I gain no income or benefit from it other than personal achievement. I have a great friend who has his pro license and is very talented, but I am sure would agree with what I have said. He's in the sport to challenge himself, but to also try and make a go of it for money and a living. Someone who calls themselves elite amateur and places very well overall in the events they enter is entirely different from being on the start line with guys racing for food, money, car and mortage payments in my book.

X2 with may being the key word.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Sounds like a good argument for a category system like bike racing.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I'm right there with you - I was very surprised by the standard they set.

I agree. It would make A LOT of sense. Unfortunately, I don't think it could work unless there's a bit more (and deeper) prize money involved. You need to have people want to make the move.

Offering comped entries to pros and a deeper purse would incentivize top ager's who've qualified for an elite card to take it. As it stands now, there's no point to take it for most athletes. If Tim Hola was a pro, far fewer people would have heard of him - it's in his economic best interest to stay an ager for sponsorship, etc.

In bike racing, there's money available at every level, so it would be pretty immoral to race cat 4 if you should be a 2. That would probably have the opposite effect in triathlon though. No one would upgrade.

At anyrate, MOST 'pros' in our sports are not professional like NFL or MLB players. They have nearly full time jobs and no shortage of other commitments etc. It cracks me up when people say, "Oh, I'd rather take the advice of an age grouper than a pro, because that person understands what it's like to juggle a family and a job." Newsflash, most of the "pros" are doing the same thing. The guys that can make a living exclusively racing/training are the exception, not the rule.

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Twitter | Kancman | Blog

It's a fabricated category. It's not like it means anything. It's just for wave purposes. If they made it 2:05, there'd be what, 15 people in the wave, if that. The time standard needs to be loose enough to justify a larger wave. It makes plenty of sense - if you think you're racing for the overall, sign up for that one. Otherwise, just do ag.

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Twitter | Kancman | Blog

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For example, here in Oz the organisers of Noosa,Mooloolabah and the Geelong Triathlon Festivals, USM Events, require that their OPEN qualifications are sub 2:05 for men and sub 2:18 for women.

The ELITES require a professional license

Here are the results for Noosa last year
www.multisportaustralia.com.au/RaceTecResults/Results.aspx?CId=1&RId=455&EId=1

In the Open men (your age group elite) the winner went 1:54,seventeen others went under 2hrs,twentry-nine went sub 2:05.The last two guys stopped for lunch and a coffee before doing the walk of shame to the finish in around 2:20... ;-)

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