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You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high”
 
I’m not sure where the initial meme came from but from what I’ve seen it’s far less common than people who are on the wrong saddle, which in my view is the most important, most individual piece of equipment you have.

I have tried at least seven saddles in four years and I finally found the right one. By “right”, I don’t mean comfort, because I’ve been comfortable for years on the saddle that was winning the tournament. The right saddle is something you are comfortable enough on to stay in aero for the duration of your event but also the saddle that narrows the gap between your upright power and your power in your most aerodynamic position.

My first year I could hold the same power on TT and road because I was riding my TT bike like a road bike, like most people. I’ve been getting lower and longer every year and watching the gap in power widen, even as I became faster overall. The delta was about 30 watts until I tried two more saddles this month while dropping my pad stack an extra 20mm. Now it’s basically indistinguishable despite being (probably) more “aggressive” than I’ve ever been.

Jordan Rapp has now set TT power PRs of every duration since finding his forever saddle, and after all these years. I’m expecting the same. So your seat might be too high or low but much more likely is that you’re on the wrong damn seat entirely, especially if you’re on the one you’re on just because it came on your bike or because your fitter decided the one you are on was right in a two hour session with no time on the road.

How many have you tried for some extended period? What was your saddle journey? Did you go back to your fitter every time you tried a new saddle? Curious about this

Anyways, the challenges with the saddle trial process are daunting, but it’s worth it if you haven’t taken it on, no matter how long you’ve been in the sport
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
So what saddle works for you?

I'm in a similar boat. My new position doesn't work with my prior saddle, both comfort and power wise, and I'm now on my 4th saddle in 3 years.

Really tempted by Dash, but not really willing to dish out the cash without trying first.

Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [urbantriathlete] [ In reply to ]
 
urbantriathlete wrote:
So what saddle works for you?

I'm in a similar boat. My new position doesn't work with my prior saddle, both comfort and power wise, and I'm now on my 4th saddle in 3 years.

Really tempted by Dash, but not really willing to dish out the cash without trying first.


I purposely didn’t tell you because it shouldn’t actually matter unless we have some data that informs that it’s better for you. But if you must know it is the Dash Stage narrow version. If you want to try the Stage standard hit me up for a steal and you can return it if you don’t like it. The standard version gave me such bad chafing I had to waddle around for three days
Last edited by: kileyay: Jan 29, 18 19:39
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Thanks - was more curious than anything. If the Cobb 55+ doesn't work out for me I may just do that.

And re: your overall point, I agree there is substance to the argument, but it is going to be very time-intensive and potentially costly to really figure it out. Most people will just live with "good enough."

Is it possible we are discounting the ability to adapt to a mediocre saddle, assuming it's comfortable, with enough time on it?

Lastly - I wonder if there is more of a market for custom made saddles (other than dash)? For $350-$500, someone should be able to identify contact points and rider preferences to figure out how to adjust a mold for a perfect fit.

Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Great post!

IME 85% of all bike issues my athletes have, if not a higher %, is saddle related.

Like you I've been through a slew and now have 3 more to try. I actually went to Austin to see one of my athletes who fits and she took me around to a few bike shops until we got to Nero's (IIRC anyway). They have a ton of demo saddles. Rode multiple, left with 2 or 3 to try.

Oddly I've got about 3-4 road saddles which I can ride 5-6.5 hours and saddle discomfort never crosses my mind.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta Twitter

 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [urbantriathlete] [ In reply to ]
 
urbantriathlete wrote:
Thanks - was more curious than anything. If the Cobb 55+ doesn't work out for me I may just do that.

And re: your overall point, I agree there is substance to the argument, but it is going to be very time-intensive and potentially costly to really figure it out. Most people will just live with "good enough."

Is it possible we are discounting the ability to adapt to a mediocre saddle, assuming it's comfortable, with enough time on it?

Lastly - I wonder if there is more of a market for custom made saddles (other than dash)? For $350-$500, someone should be able to identify contact points and rider preferences to figure out how to adjust a mold for a perfect fit.

It’s possible, but I expect to be much much faster this year despite having thought I was “adapted” and I’m no idiot, nor is Jordan

It’s time intensive and expensive because the model of fitting and selling fit components is broken and I’m going to fix it for you guys by 2019 because this is ridiculous

Custom saddles aren’t needed, and more expense isn’t a good idea in my view. This sport is SO expensive. We need solutions for lowering expense. Dash could be half the price with the same margin without the weight weenie carbon railed bullshit
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
 
Cookiebuilder wrote:
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?

Simple. I can now fully roll my hips forward.

I’d like Dan to do a poll on how many saddles you’ve tried. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+

We will have global saddle market share data and can cut by gender at some point, which could be an interesting place to start
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
It’s time intensive and expensive because the model of fitting and selling fit components is broken and I’m going to fix it for you guys by 2019 because this is ridiculous

Custom saddles aren’t needed, and more expense isn’t a good idea in my view. This sport is SO expensive. We need solutions for lowering expense. Dash could be half the price with the same margin without the weight weenie carbon railed bullshit

Ive been in the game for ~8 years only on my second saddle. Stuck with my first saddle for far too long since I was in graduate school and didn't have the money to try something else. I've spent the last season on an ISM. It's better, but I'm not in love. I tend to squirm around a lot as I can't find a spot I'm truely comfortable with while still feeling like I can put down decent power.

I'm considering giving a Cobb JOF 55 or a Dash a try. But as you mentioned this game can get expensive and time consuming fast. The 'problem' I have with Dash, is not knowing if I should go with a narrow or standard width. Their site doesn't really offer recommendations or a guide on which one to choose which is disappointing. I'd rather not have to buy both to try them out.

Matt
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Cookiebuilder wrote:
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?

Simple. I can now fully roll my hips forward.

I’d like Dan to do a poll on how many saddles you’ve tried. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+

We will have global saddle market share data and can cut by gender at some point, which could be an interesting place to start

What exactly do you think is the reason that this particular saddle allows you to roll your hip forward?
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Cookiebuilder wrote:
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?


Simple. I can now fully roll my hips forward.

I’d like Dan to do a poll on how many saddles you’ve tried. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+

We will have global saddle market share data and can cut by gender at some point, which could be an interesting place to start


Thanks for posting this, I knew that you had the same problem as me, I also know you are faster than me so i sometimes just gave up and figured i could be fast and still have this annoying problem.... ill go give the hip roll another go...
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Cookiebuilder wrote:
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?

Simple. I can now fully roll my hips forward.

I’d like Dan to do a poll on how many saddles you’ve tried. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+

We will have global saddle market share data and can cut by gender at some point, which could be an interesting place to start

I hate to admit it, but I am in 7++ range. Dash, multiple Cobbs, ISM, Selle, every Specialized in the last 10+ years (and I think Sitero is just plain evil).

The saddle is the key to bike fit if you ask me.
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
I’m no idiot,

Didn't you buy an Andean??

Your poor judgement aside, you're totally correct. An extremely common conversation during my fits is:
me: What do you think of your saddle?
Rider: it's great, I don't get any discomfort.
me: What if you rotate your pelvis forward to lean into the aerobars?
rider: Now it is horrible and feels like it is violating me
me: that is why you can't get comfortable in the aerobars, let alone get into a 'good' position - your soft bits are running away from the saddle.

Then we try other saddles until their pelvis falls forward and there is no discomfort. I offer a comfort guarantee on saddles as getting the saddle wrong is a fit failure, not going to charge the rider again to try another saddle.
On that note, I'm going off ISM as the QC is so bad - expensive saddles that have different nose heights and slanted rear shells. Crooked saddles just make fit issues worse.
Yet to see a misaligned JoF55

A lot of the reason that good fit components are expensive is that the brands are small, so have to have fairly high margins to stay in business with low volumes.

@urbantriathlete - you are not going to properly adapt to a mediocre saddle, usually they just get worse over time.

Speedtheory | ST Interview
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't know, Kiley. I think some people are just less picky than others.

Some people fiddled with 5 Adamos before finding the right one and my wife is still displeased with her saddle (but hesistant to try more, she's tired of it and Felt's IA seatpost is so shit it might not survive another saddle change). She's happy with her road saddle - aggressive position, no numbness nor chafing for multi-day rides. But TT? No luck.

I've been pleased with my first saddle (Cobb Max) as I've been with my second (Bontrager Hilo) - despite the completely different designs. As long as I can put my nether bits on it without numbness (check for both) and not too much chafing (check for the Bonty) I'm pleased. However, I've had a short go on the new Bontrager Hilo and I think that may be my new forever-saddle. It looks like it addresses all the little improvements I would've liked to see.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm on saddle #6 and #7. Furthermore, the saddle I like to ride in aero is most definitely not the saddle I like to sit up on. I'm sure this is true for most people. "Train in aero, then" is probably something somebody will say, and they will have a good point... but in the off-season quite often I just want to play about in Zwift doing some group rides and races and whatnot. So... I have two saddles which I have to interchange whenever I start doing specific TT work or am looking like taking my race bike out on the road.

I'd just swap bikes onto the trainer, but I'm on a direct drive and still ride 9 speed on my roady.. old skoolz. I should probably just sort that shit out.

Find me a saddle please that is comfortable with my hips rolled forwards and tolerable with them rolled back sat upright aswell. If you find me that I'll buy you a pint.
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Very well written post.
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
 
"Oddly I've got about 3-4 road saddles which I can ride 5-6.5 hours and saddle discomfort never crosses my mind. "
------------------------------
I'm just the opposite. I am very comfortable on the TT bike . . . I have gone up to 7 hours and it has never been an issue. However, I just can't get comfortable for long periods of time on the road bike. I can certainly go long but I am always fidgety in saddle trying to find the perfect comfort that I have on the TT.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
I've had a lot of saddles (well over 10) but honestly it's always just to "try something new." I can ride 2+ hours on a trainer on pretty much any saddle so long as it's got a narrow enough nose that it doesn't rub my inner thighs. I've always preferred the feel of a "road like" saddle, even when I did tri's exclusively.

Just speculating... I'd guess the more you rotate around the bb the more important finding that "exact" saddle is. I don't rotate much around the bb... so something more "traditional" seems to be fine.

I would like to try the new(ish) Aerocoach saddle sometime... but that's the only thing that's caught my eye lately.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm on saddle #6 since late 2011. I rode 3 different saddles in 2017 (cobb 55, Dash stock stage narrow, ISM PN 3.0). I have settled on the PN 3.0 (by far one of the best saddles I have tried).

I will say when folks switch from a traditional long nose saddle to a noseless saddle (ISM, Cobb 55, dash, etc), they don't give it a proper chance and/or aren't sitting on them right. If you are already on a noseless saddle, the adjustment time should be shorter.

blog
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
 
KingMidas wrote:
kileyay wrote:
Cookiebuilder wrote:
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?


Simple. I can now fully roll my hips forward.

I’d like Dan to do a poll on how many saddles you’ve tried. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+

We will have global saddle market share data and can cut by gender at some point, which could be an interesting place to start


What exactly do you think is the reason that this particular saddle allows you to roll your hip forward?

Same question for me.
I find I have trouble keeping my hips rolled forward because it doesn't feel natural to me, so maybe a core/back strength issue. If you are saying the dash saddle changes that for you, does that mean all the other saddles were causing numbness down there?
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
 
No numbness or discomfort. And to be honest, I really don’t know, but my sense is that it relieves pressure where there was minor pressure before
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
Meh. snowflakes, all of you....

taint of steel here. Saddle tilt adjustment is all I really need. But then, I used to TT on a bare carbon Selle Italia Flite.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
After a couple of us were having regular discussions with our coach about saddle issues, and after possibly more than a few adult beverages at our end-of-the-season party, our coach informed us, "it's not a fucking couch cushion, it's not going to be comfortable."

My saddle evolution is long, and summarized in a blog post that would probably bore this audience to tears. Suffice it to say my experiences have been the result of a combo of bike fit issues, saddle availability, terminology, time in position, physiological adaptation.

Long low riding positions put lots of pressure on the front of the saddle. Split nose Adamo Typhoon was initially a blessing, then a curse, as it is too wide for my pelvis. (Cue the person who's going to tell me I was riding it wrong. Yes, then no, and yes it's too wide a saddle for me.)

Moved to Koobi 232T. Better, still too wide.
Tried a Cobb V flow. Still too wide.
Specialized Power saddle, size M. Too wide! Size small, still on my TT bike after a couple seasons but am not sure it's the right stopping point.
Selle SMP evolution on my road bike. LOVE this saddle.

-----
https://swimbikeslapshot.blogspot.com/...r-female-saddle.html

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
 
kileyay wrote:
Cookiebuilder wrote:
I bet I am on my seventh saddle. I ended up with the dash too.... love it but I am still sitting at a 30 watt gap... I almost don't believe you got power back like that, that would be a dream come true for me. What do you think changed to ge the power?


Simple. I can now fully roll my hips forward.

I’d like Dan to do a poll on how many saddles you’ve tried. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+

We will have global saddle market share data and can cut by gender at some point, which could be an interesting place to start

I tried about 10 saddles in the offseason years ago to find the right one. I found the Cobb V-Flow Max to work the best for me then. It wasn't any sort of Nirvana but good enough. Then the Sitero came out and that was perfect. The one and only issue I have with the Sitero is that it sucks if you're not riding in aero position. It feels like sitting on a brick when upright. Did IMC-Whistler 2x with it and yowsers was my taint suffering going uphill. I did try a Dash and really liked it. Not as good as the Sitero in aero but way better upright. Went back to the Sitero though.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
 
Re: You’re on the wrong saddle — the new “your seat is too high” [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
 
How are you trying all these saddles? Buying used? Buying new then selling? Sounds pricey as all shit
 

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