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X1 Set up and chain selection.
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Looking at moving to a X1 and was wondering what chains people are running? Do people use the sram pc1170 chain or do they use any chain they want?

Also any other advice on X1 setups. I have read the other threads here and am looking at keeping my sram Etap on the rear with SLF oversized pulleys and then moving to a sram x1 sync 52t chainring for the front and running a 11-26 to 11-28 in the rear.

I only plan to use this bike for racing, I don't have to many hills in the races I do.

I am all ears on advice here.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Last edited by: BBLOEHR: Mar 27, 18 7:29
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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I am using a 1170 but have a Premier Tactical sitting at home that will be added to the bike for this race season. I don’t anticipate any issues.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Running a Premier Chain on SRAM Xsync 54T. I never had a chain drop, but I did install an aero coach chain guide because I would be pissed if it dropped mid race.

http://www.aero-coach.co.uk/store/product/aerocoach-affix-1x-aero-chain-guide
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00643Z6WO/



I bought this chain and stripped/waxed it for racing. Reason for selection was it seemed like the right amount of reasonableness for price lol. On the rear I use the wifli rear deraileur so I can use a 32t cassette if necessary. Up front I'm running the 52t as well, but plan on getting a 54t for TTs to keep the chain more in the middle of the cassette.

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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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I use 52 xsync chainring with SRAM RD and ICE Friction Ultegra chain. Even before working with ICE I always used Ultegra chains. Good combo of price and performance!

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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Welcome to the club! I've run both a connex wippermann and Red22 chain... no drops or shifting issues with either.

I run SRAM 54t with 11-28 and have an 11-25 for flatter courses... so far it's worked out really great!
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Cool, I have been interested in that Chain, up to this point been using the Ice Friction chains.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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I have run the Campy and YNB chains. I have both a 52 and 54 SRAM narrow-wide with ETap. Any old cassette will do.

Funny thing is I haven't ever used the SRAM chains. I think Friction Facts rated them poorly and I never felt the need to use one.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Yea they did if I remember as well. I will just train on the Sram chain will race on the ice friction or Premier chain this year.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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does anyone know what exact coating is put on the premiere chain? It says wax blend. Is that wax w/ stuff like moly or is it more like squirt? I am wanting to put the molten speed wax race powder on this chain but am not sure how it would work with a product more like squirt (which I think is similar to the premiere lube that I don't see on the website)?
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Edit: Before we start our process the chains are cleaned to remove any oils or grease from the factory.


Our chain is first physically smoothed (a lot). This first step takes about 25 minutes. Not just a run in process. All plates, pins and roller surface irregularities are reduced from a surface roughness average (Ra) of 16-18 micro inches (distance from the valleys to the peaks) to an Ra of 2.5 - 3.0. A blend of proprietary chemicals and methods are used to smooth the surfaces. No other company does this.

You can put what ever lubrication you want on the peaks of metal surfaces and the peaks will grind (friction). A fine metal paste and grit will form and you will wear out your chain. Lubrication alone only helps for a short amount of time.

In the second step of our process: The 2.5 - 3.0 (mostly in the negative for lubrication retention) is then processed in a WS2 adhesion process. WS2 (Tungsten Disulfide) is a very slick lubrication that bonds with metal under pressure. It physically bonds. If you Google WS2 or Tungsten Disulfide there is a lot of information on its lubrication and adhesion properties. We use nano-particles of WS2 so we can get into all the very small surface irregularities. This process takes about 25 minutes per chain although we batch process.

Next we do what is traditionally known as the "wax method" (accept on a more industrial level and in batches). This is what you read about here and other places where you melt wax and additional chemicals etc....This makes up the final Premier Optimized Chain.

Our Ultra Glide Lube is a wax/WS2 blend. It goes on wet and then dries clear. Any excess flakes off when riding. It's closest relative is Squirt lube. We give you a massive 16 oz bottle for $16.50 and its the best lube on the market.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Mar 28, 18 8:13
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
does anyone know what exact coating is put on the premiere chain? It says wax blend. Is that wax w/ stuff like moly or is it more like squirt? I am wanting to put the molten speed wax race powder on this chain but am not sure how it would work with a product more like squirt (which I think is similar to the premiere lube that I don't see on the website)?

The Premier stuff dries to be very much like the Molten Speed wax, but softer. You don't get that initial stiffness at all but there is definitely a wax layer on the chain. Squirt probably has a much lighter wax and no Molybdimum and it just seems to leave a waxy film on the chain.

I am really liking the Premier lube and it tested very well by MTN. I assume that means he set his hour record using it.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting, but it sounds like if you buy their race chain it has traditional wax on it, not their lube.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Correct - kind'of..

With our chain process we physically impinge the WS2 on to the chain surfaces after we smooth it and then perform the wax treatment.

With "our lube" the WS2 is in suspension in the wax and works it's way into the inner surfaces. Not as good as the chain process but still very effective on other brand clean chains.. The more applications the better.

Use of "Our Lube" on "Our Chain" - the lube is replacing any WS2 that is scuffed off through use.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I have a question about your chain/lube that was I was thinking about this morning...You may not be the person to answer but you might...for the watts savings associated with the chain and the lube, does a PM (P1 pedals, for example) pick up those savings or will the savings "only" come in increased speed. In other words, If I did a FTP test today and was at 300 and then I put your chain and lube on and did another FTP test. Would I theoretically jump to say 310 (under the assumption that the products offer a 10 watt savings) or would my FTP remain the same and my speed at 300 watts simple increase as a result of the products?
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Mar 29, 18 10:41
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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if pedals or crank PM, no your ftp wouldn't increase, you'd just go faster.

if you have a powertap hub, yes your measured FTP would in "increase," but you'd still go the same amount faster.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks; that makes sense give where the power is being measured for the different products.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Testing is difficult - we have had some independent testing done.

The following was the set-up. There is some math that needs to be done. It is very easy to get misleading information.

Pre Drive Train Power Meter:
Rotor 3D+ SRM, ANT+ 30371 (paired to Garmin Edge 1000)
Post Drive Train Power Meter:
Tacx Neo 2017, ANT+ 3527 (paired to Garmin Edge 520)
Cassette:
SRAM Red 1190 11-28 (11-speed)
Cassette tooth used:
19T (4th from the top (inner) most cog)
Chain ring:
58T TST/Varup Teknik custom wide/narrow first prototype
All components placed for 2+ hours in ambient conditions to let the temperature settle.
Each chain broken in for 5-10 min. at ~150W before 10 min of data recording at ~230W.
Ambient temperature within 1C all through testing.
Same KMC 11-speed quick link used on all chains.

Notes:
Put everything into Excel and found the delta between SRM and Neo for each second.
I then took the average for each minute so I end up with 10 delta power values for each test.
I then calculate the standard deviation from that in the spreadsheet.
I think a good chunk of the SD is probably just the time offset and different smoothing algorithms between SRM and Neo (that's why I don't calculate the SD based on the difference each second, because the value I get from SRM will likely not correspond exactly to the value I get from the Neo that same second). It seems like the Neo is a bit slower and maybe has a bit more smoothing than the SRM.

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan's Chain on and no more front der.






2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone mind the occasional 2t step between cassette cogs? i.e. with a sram 11-32 cassette, it goes 15t -> 17t on the back.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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I have a similar setup for my TT bike and assuming perfect chain length and the Sram 1x chainring there should be no drop issues. Cross/gravel is different where the clutch RD is needed for chain slap when in the smaller cogs hitting bumps but that is not a real issue in tri/TT applications.
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Yea I have had zero issues with that with my set up so far but then again only going to a 26t on the rear.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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I'm specifically thinking of gearing for challenge roth and decided to go with 54t up front for the high speed sections. My concern is if 54t x 11-32t on the back will have too large jumps on the cassette in the most frequent rpm range (85-90 for me). SRAM casettes being 14-15-17t and Shimano casettes being 14-16-18t..

Yes i should go test, but until then...
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Re: X1 Set up and chain selection. [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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To tack onto this thread.. ran across two SRAM chains that use a narrow/wide design on the chain to mesh with a narrow/wide chain ring. I dropped my chain the other day and was getting a little skip on my cassette... pop on my chain gauge and my chain is out spec.

So the SRAM PCX1 and PCXX1 with the wide/narrow design... useful or ????
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