I hate the idea of age categories. Has absolutely nothing to do with your ability level. Could be a pro, could be your first ever event.

For racing, categories.

For participation, an open group.

But it is what it is. Running is just as silly. So little actual racing happening.

I really like this idea actually.

Not time based but rather using a system like USAT rankings on your place versus competition in that event

I disagree with every point you've made, and I certainly don't even agree that triathlon has a finisher culture anymore than any other endurance sport. As an older age grouper, I care very much about my competition. I want to qualify for championship events in Ironman/70.3/ITU and I also watch my USAT ranking. I don't need Cat 1-5 for that and I am not at all interested in competing with much younger men just because we might be in the same Category. Your proposal might (and I emphasize 'might') be fine for 18-39 yrs old, but even then I don't buy your premise that some guy/gal who is MOP in their AG will be magically transformed simply because they are now assigned a category. There already is a competitive culture in Running, in Swimming, in Cycling and in Triathlon. Some take advantage of it and some don't. It won't change just because you change the system.

BINGO!!

Bike racing was basically a dead sport with not much participation, so they added age groups. That added a few numbers, but the sport is in dire trouble. Triathlon on the other hand has grown exponentially since its beginning in the early 80's, leveled off a few times, and is enjoying a huge base of mass participation, where there is also racing going on. I dont see how having categories(which we do already, using pro and sometimes elite ager) would enhance the experience, or be more inclusive in general.

I bike raced since the late 70's, witnessed the growth in the 80's and 90's, and the slow decline since the past decade +. I dont know what they need to do, the AG thing gave them a shot for a bit, but it is just not appealing to the masses. I suppose blowing your heart and lungs up, and then getting dropped in your first few races, only to quit and go home unsatisfied, is the biggest problem. Its a very narrow opening for a very few that get to have fun and success early on, enough to keep going even though the higher you go, the less and less you see the people you started with in Cat 5..

I'm pretty wary of anything that makes triathlon more like the (rapidly dying) sport of bicycle racing, at least here in the US.

Frankly, I think you've got this completely backwards. Cycling needs to learn from the way Triathlon structures it's categorization, not the other way around.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Ummmm no. If you are slow you would be against new/slow 20 year younger olds in cat 5.

2:14 would be Cat 1 according to the OP's chart.

Using the bike category system you wouldnt go 2:14....you'd go 2:15:01 "sandbagging" to stay in the Cat 2 and "win".....

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Sorry I didn't realize there were times, thought this was hypothetical.Obviously though there will always be a cusp of podium, in one category to BOP in the next category.

Take the current 40-44 age group. 99.99% of the entrants have no hope in hell of getting anywhere near the front. Wheres the long term enjoyment/incentive for them, or the encouragement for them to drag their friends into a race if they are all down dead last?

If they could all start off at say cat 5 they could actually have a chance of 'competing'?

I've already gone faster than 2:15 and I thought there would be "no backsies" :)

No.
What "exorbitant" are you paying USAT?
How do ensure the distances are accurate?
Cycling is struggling...seems like triathlon, running & swimming have it figured out.

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

I can understand your thinking there.

Triathlon would be better with Groups determined by some kind of a simple points based formula:

Age
+
# of kids under 5
+
# of kids over 5
+
Marital status
+
Salary / tax bracket
+
Latitude/longitude of permanent residence
+
Hours per week worked
+
Commute time
+
Saddle height
+
AWA points (multiplier)
+
Years as paid USAT Member
+
TUE / grams of supplements used per week
+
% of salary spent on race wheels, oversized pullies, ceramic speed, skinsuits, wetsuits, etc
+
Pain cave square footage
+
Wear calf sleeves? / Age one calf visible?
+
% of bike leg spent Drafting in previous 3 races?
+
#of days of your build phase spent sick or injured
+
$ paid for coaching
+
Race and religion
+
Etc

Thoughts?

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

I think most people posting don't know how categories work.

Everyone starts in Cat5. That doesn't mean the Cat5 field is slow though... because the Cat5 "beginner" field will usually have a few riders who are very strong. So if you aren't a strong rider you are going to get spit out the back anyway. How much fun is that? Not very. That's the main difference between road and tri. Even with 5 categories you need to be pretty fit and serious at the lowest level, or you aren't really in the race. You also need skill at riding in a pack and fighting for position. It's also why road racing isn't popular. Too competitive and dangerous for most people these days.

Riders are forced to upgrade if they have a certain number of points (race placings). They can also opt to upgrade if they have a lesser number of points. So if you are doing well in your category, you will be forced to upgrade to the next higher one where it will be less likely you will place. The FOP experience will be transitory unless you dominate the top category in your area.

It isn't great, but age groups would be worse.

having crashed into Cat 5 level people in our current AG model, I want catergory racing. They zigzag, block the course, etc. Too dangerous.

Wait, huh? Are all cycling races done under the same conditions???

I have thought about this too and I’m all for it. Golf has a way to calculate handicaps, cycling can figure out Cat groups, why couldn’t triathlon do something similar??? Heck USAT already has a formula for rankings that may be flawed but has some formula for equalizing race results that could at least provide a starting point.

I've found that trying to work your way up in the percentages within your age group works great. First, top 50%. Then 25%. Then 10%. Then podium. If races made it easier to see what percentage you got, that'd be great.

I'm not so sure cycling has it figured out, especially when it comes to attracting new racers. There are very few pure cat 5 races and a cat 4/5 field is filled with guys who just don't earn enough points to get an upgrade but can and will kick in the brains of any new person showing up to a race. It's honestly not fair in any way for a new person to show up and race against me. . . but I've only got one point to my name. . . so I race the 3/4 where I can. . . . but that's not always an option.

Cross is set-up better because your race isn't done the second you're dropped from the group and gravel seems to be growing nicely. But traditional bike racing. . . I wish we had more interest. . . but it's not the flavor of the masses right now. . . and categories aren't helping. The barrier to entry is just too great.

It's the nature of pack racing. What would be better than categories? Age groups certainly wouldn't be an improvement.

The races that have appeal are ones where you don't need to be fit or skilled to compete.

Why cant both have it figured out that allows both to work for each sport. That was more my point. Why cant cats work for the majority of the "racing" that is cycling and tri simply be categorized by AG.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Not even going to bother reading the responses to this nonsense.

Road racing is doing worse than triathlon as a sport... except for fondos and gravel racing where there are no categories.

Hello fumanchu and All,

I love new ideas ....

But .......

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

So road racing is no longer a club/team sport.

I was little, but when my father was a cyclist it was all a team sport.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.