Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if...
Quote | Reply
Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if when the battery failed the brakes were in the closed position?

Meaning the de-powered state is closed , the battery is required to keep them open. No battery , no go, call for ride home.

The biggest trick is getting that closed position just right, to stop you but not dump you over the bars.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nope. Not ever. No way, no how.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would ride an electric brake system if the front brake was still cabeled and the back was electric
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 

Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if every descent had a runaway-bike ramp that dumped you into a huge pile of foam chunks.

Yes!
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Definitely no. What would be the advantage? They would weigh more because of the battery. There is no disadvantage at this point from an aero perspective all the brakes are hidden.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That sounds awful.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't want brakes that ever produce braking force by themselves. What I'd want is the same fault tolerance that we have on mechanical brakes. E.g. I'd want complete independence between front and rear. Completely different sets of batteries, transmitters, receivers. And different RF frequencies. So anything that goes wrong with one is very unlikely to affect the other. Just like if I snap a brake cable on my rear brake, I can still stop with my front brake.

I think this could be added to eTap. I think it should be called eTap MAX (tm).
Last edited by: trail: Mar 27, 19 17:14
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grant.Reuter wrote:
They would weigh more because of the battery.

Lot cable and housing that would go away. Or hydro fluid and master cylinders. Might be a wash.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
One of my main rules for bicycle component selection is: "Never rely on a battery for function".

So, no.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I checked my "hyperbike" spec that I posted (to crickets) back in 2015 and wireless brakes were not on the menu . For a safety system you need a mechanical system in addition to electrical. This is how the the Boeing stabilizers are designed.

I did spec ABS or ABA that is automatic brake application based on a central race telemetry system processing. I also had AST or autoshift - something that is just starting to unfold now (eg "new DI2")

The deal with my spec it it's tied to central race control - the rider just pedals and steers :)

====here's the spec ===================================
CCM : Command Center & Pit Crew Monitoring with full download/control capabilities
CRC : Cycle to Race Communications and Telemetry System
ORS: Optimal Race strategy processing, which includes Auto Shift Technology (AST) and Auto Brake Application (ABA)
Triple-A OS: Active Aerodynamics Attitude Operating System. Defined by the master race algorithm and on-board sensors, the ride attitude, height and saddle position of the bike is automatically adjusted to optimize aerodynamics and handling capabilities for the race course & current conditions.
CAD: Cockpit Automation Design, which includes motorized bar retraction, and rider information center with audible annunciation technology. Rider feedback alerts included under/over watts, inefficient aerodynamics over baseline, incorrect race course positioning, and pedal strike warning system. The main processing unit for CAD uses accelerometers, GPS, position, incline and other sensors throughout the bike.
TPMS: Tire pressure monitoring system feeds back to telemetry system and to rider CAD. Slip rates are also detected to warn the riding of a potential loss of traction.
VGS: In order to provide for optimal air flow around the rider without increasing drag, a Vortex Generation System is employed at the head, top, and down tubes of the bike, to create vortices and disorient air flow over the rider's legs, arms and torso.
EPSI: The advanced features of the Autograph are powered by the bike's onboard electro-pneumatic system - integrated. Pressurized before the ride, the onboard air supply is designed to be deployed throughout the race program. In the event of a low pressure, the rider's pedal stroke is can be diverted to restore air, or an optional electric onboard compressor invoked.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
Last edited by: SharkFM: Mar 27, 19 18:21
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Never.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wouldn't this immobilize you if your battery died mid-ride? At least with Di2 you can limp home in the gear you're already stuck in. I couldn't imagine being out on a century ride and then not being able to bike home in the event that something like this happened.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, wireless everything sucks. It works perfectly until it doesn't and then it's a shitshow to troubleshoot.

Just tonight, my 935 that has been working beautifully for 15 months stopped syncing via WiFi. I'm 2 hours into troubleshooting the damn thing and NOTHING works. Reset routers. Update software. Hard reset the watch. Stand on one foot, touch my nose, say the alphabet backwards. NOTHING.

I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if my bike was dead because the wireless failed.

There is not a single piece of wireless equipment that doesn't fail over time and the only solution is to buy a new one. Not a single thing.

Wireless keyboard. Shit.

Wireless mouse. Shit.

Garmin wireless syncing. Shit.

At least when your Di2 fails, you just get to ride an IM in an awful gear. Brakes? Hell no.

Meantime, my printer from 1975 that operates on USB works like a charm. Every. Single. Time.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rumour has it Kienle is trialing them at Kona this year...
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would. I think even when I was a kid the aeroplanes I flew on had ‘fly by wire’. Even my car’s brakes go rubbish without electrical power. I’ve never heard anyone refuse to get on a plane without mechanical control.

What’d make me nervous is wireless control, eg. Like SRAM ETap.

You could probably convert some of the energy lost in braking into recharging the battery, so it never ran out. Just depends on weight of system.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DJRed wrote:
.

Meantime, my printer from 1975 that operates on USB works like a charm. Every. Single. Time.

I was going to think you meant 1995, but even that essentially pre-dates USB getting to market.

That said, my eTap has been amazing. I've taken it sliding across the tarmac and slamming into curbs at 40MPH. I've driven it through blizzards on the back of my car. I've hosed it down at high pressure. I've frozen it. I've taken it through 125F heat.

It just never, ever fails. Never missed a shift. Ever.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, few short coming on this one.

And i'm not sure what will be the advantages (there are clear advantages for shifting)
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
7401southwick wrote:
Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if when the battery failed the brakes were in the closed position?

Meaning the de-powered state is closed , the battery is required to keep them open. No battery , no go, call for ride home.

The biggest trick is getting that closed position just right, to stop you but not dump you over the bars.

No because:

It would weigh A LOT.

The batteries would not last long.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If eTap could order wireless a a big piece of cake and a little espresso at the same time I'd give it a try ..

*
___/\___/\___/\___
the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DJRed wrote:
Yeah, wireless everything sucks. It works perfectly until it doesn't and then it's a shitshow to troubleshoot.

Just tonight, my 935 that has been working beautifully for 15 months stopped syncing via WiFi. I'm 2 hours into troubleshooting the damn thing and NOTHING works. Reset routers. Update software. Hard reset the watch. Stand on one foot, touch my nose, say the alphabet backwards. NOTHING.

I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if my bike was dead because the wireless failed.

There is not a single piece of wireless equipment that doesn't fail over time and the only solution is to buy a new one. Not a single thing.

Wireless keyboard. Shit.

Wireless mouse. Shit.

Garmin wireless syncing. Shit.

At least when your Di2 fails, you just get to ride an IM in an awful gear. Brakes? Hell no.

Meantime, my printer from 1975 that operates on USB works like a charm. Every. Single. Time.
Radio interference. Doesn't need to be on 2.4 GHz (microwaves, cordless phones, ham radio). It can just as easily be broadband noise from a faulty dimmer switch or transformer on a power pole outside. It could be anything. Even a powerful nearby signal on a completely different band could kill your wifi. People need to learn that wireless is a shared resource and not to rely on it for anything critical. That said, I obviously use wireless HR and speed sensors and power meters, but no way in hell would I ever use wireless shifting let alone brakes. Like you said it works then it doesn't (then it works). Bought a huge house on Cougar mountain in Newcastle WA though (relative is RF engineer).
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No way, ever. The potential downside is too great.

I have Di2 on my TT bike and it's awesome and brilliant and i love it. But it has failed on me twice. Once i had 30 miles to ride home in the big ring, once i had 20 miles to ride home in the small ring. Neither of these involved death.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [RCCo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The solution you propose would require a rediculus amount of battery power (holding up the tension of a braka that will close when battery runs out), not even sure how it would work just being wireless and then you hit the brake when needed, would require a lot more force than gear shifting! If used it would be rear brake only as one suggested, so you still have the mechanial front backup and no needs for wires towards the read.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Shambolic wrote:
Rumour has it Kienle is trialing them at Kona this year...
He should know better: he hashad that problem of that wildly shifting Etap in Kona.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No and I don’t like your alleged solution of lock up at battery death either.
Quote Reply
Re: Would you ride a bike with wireless brakes if... [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is not the way I would build a wireless brake.

If I was going to design wireless brakes I would put them into the hub shell. This would keep the brakes protected from the elements and hide them from the wind which would be the big advantage of the design. It would be moderately easy to build a hub brake that it also controls the free hub in a manner which only allows free wheeling when receiving power. Combined with hub gears or a pinion gear box you have yourself a fixie so you haven't lost the rear brake. For redundancy in the front brake I would run a cable internally within the fork to the hub which triggers mechanical control if power is lost (in effect it would work like a current hub brakes do).

The challenge with the system is three fold: 1) braking requires a lot of energy meaning big heavy batteries, 2) Current hub brakes suck and 3) the required gear systems are not truly viable yet. But you would get a braking system that offered genuine advantages over current system. I would never consider just sticking wireless transmitters on a rim/disc brake.
Quote Reply

Prev Next