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Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded
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Its probably the single most boring desolate unimaginable course that anyone could put on the big Island of Hawaii...every other road on that island is seemingly more interesting. I think the course was just designed because logistics were easy when they moved off of Oahu to the big Island, but after the Ironman arrived on the big island, they pretty well chose the worse riding and running options on the island.

Soooooo....if there was a race on the exact course with no Ironman branding, would you even bother doing it. There are probably 50 140.6 races around the world (both Mdot branded and not) which have more interesting courses.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty sure that the appeal of Kona is not the course, but the exclusivity. The challenge and prestige of qualifying has value. It's not about the course.

Now, to answer your question... unlikely. But that decision has nothing to do with the WTC, branding, or the what-not. It's doubtful that I'll be willing to spend the extra money on a full distance in Hawaii when there are so many more logistical-friendly options on the mainland.






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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.

I'm racing 2019 IM Arizona as part of Team Smile Train. Will I implode? Will I finish strong? Donate to find out more!
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.

Aside from my first time at Kona, I have never ridden on the QueenK or run there other than race day. There are a zillion better places on that island for exercise. So to answer my own question, no I would not do a 140.6 on that Island on the Ironman course. I would do a 140.6 on a variety of other courses on that island if I was fit and able (currently that is not an option, but that's another story).
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the appeal of Kona is not the course, but the exclusivity. The challenge and prestige of qualifying has value. It's not about the course.

Now, to answer your question... unlikely. But that decision has nothing to do with the WTC, branding, or the what-not. It's doubtful that I'll be willing to spend the extra money on a full distance in Hawaii when there are so many more logistical-friendly options on the mainland.
Yeah, nothing against WTC. I've done and enjoyed races within driving distance of my home in the CONUS that were and also some that were not MDot branded. Maybe the course for Kona is boring, but I've never been there so I don't know. However, I wouldn't be willing to spend the money, deal with the travel, and take the extra time off from work in order to do a race there, MDot or otherwise.


"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone knows the Kona course is shit.
So no.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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The swim is nice. :) And running on Ali'i drive isn't bad.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Everyone knows the Kona course is shit.
So no.

Having done Kona I totally agree. But it's easy for me to say that, I've done it. Others will argue until they have done it. With so many Ironmans around the world, there are heaps that are much better. Both the course and the feeling.

BTW There already is a NON MDOT in Kona on the exact course every February.

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I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. Hawaii is a great place to wrap a holiday around. I’m not bothered about a dull course during the race, I’m there to test myself: the heat, humidity, wind and lonely desolate tedium are a set of challenges I’d like to face. How would I fare in the Energy lab etc.

There are other races with a different set of challenges that would also be on the bucket list, so it wouldn’t be top of the list but it would be on it.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.

Pretty much what I was going to post. Though you could replace whatever North American location for Kona in Dev's post and the same rule would apply. For example, "Would You Do a 140.6 on the Penticton Course that is not MDot Branded?" The answer was no. :-)

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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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As someone who will never qualify for Kona, I'd do it just to say I've done the course. Many will never have that opportunity.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.


Pretty much what I was going to post. Though you could replace whatever North American location for Kona in Dev's post and the same rule would apply. For example, "Would You Do a 140.6 on the Penticton Course that is not MDot Branded?" The answer was no. :-)

So then the question is what is it about the Ironman brand that means you do a race you wouldn't do otherwise?
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Its probably the single most boring desolate unimaginable course that anyone could put on the big Island of Hawaii...every other road on that island is seemingly more interesting. I think the course was just designed because logistics were easy when they moved off of Oahu to the big Island, but after the Ironman arrived on the big island, they pretty well chose the worse riding and running options on the island.

Soooooo....if there was a race on the exact course with no Ironman branding, would you even bother doing it. There are probably 50 140.6 races around the world (both Mdot branded and not) which have more interesting courses.

I found it the most boring ironman course i have ever ridden on and the run on queen k was beyond boring

however it gets 10 out of 10 for races i have done and the support was fantastic

in answer to your question NO
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Re Penticton, my answer was yes. I did the rather lonely Challenge race. I wanted to do that single loop swim, bike, run. I don't need giant crowds but wouldn't want to travel back to back years for lonely experiences.

But my answer for Kona is no b/c I've already been to Hawaii twice (unrelated to the race, which I haven't done), don't think biking in a baking & windy lava field sounds fun, and certainly wouldn't be interested in that course as a lonely sufferfest.

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Last edited by: Tsunami: Apr 29, 19 9:31
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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OddSlug wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.


Pretty much what I was going to post. Though you could replace whatever North American location for Kona in Dev's post and the same rule would apply. For example, "Would You Do a 140.6 on the Penticton Course that is not MDot Branded?" The answer was no. :-)

So then the question is what is it about the Ironman brand that means you do a race you wouldn't do otherwise?

The tattoo, duh. (Pink)
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I am a bit of a unique case as I grew up in Hilo and so the draw for Kona for me is the fact that it is home. However, without it's history and grandeur, I think I agree that I would not do it, nor any other IM and I would just happily be racing 70.3 distance only. I might even have not been hooked to triathlon if Kona wasn't Kona... I would have done that first sprint tri in boulder and said "that was fun, I'm gonna go back to running because bikes are expensive"

808 > NYC > PDX
2019: Tired
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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I'd rather go ride some of the upcountry gravel around Mauna Kea.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.

I would consider it as a vacation destination race, I guess I'm lying to myself. I traveled from the midwest to race Lavaman primarily because it is on the Kona course. That's not a trip I would make for an Oly otherwise.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.

I thought about this and I imagined if you rewind this back to 1982. They move the race from Oahu in February to Kona in October. They had two Ironmans the same year.

The first guys "making the race" did not do it because of any branding, BUT I THINK it was the only Ironman available. There was no prize money either. Just bragging rights on a stupidly boring course.

Now we have options that we can do a 140.6 race in a locatiton other than Kona. When they moved the original 140.6 from Oahu to Kona, there was just one race to go do. For the original guys if there was another race made at the same time say in Penticton, or Roth, would they rather go there....it turns out that by the time those options came up, they were part of the same "series" a few years later and the Kona race was the "original". So that entire road to Kona pull was already happening by 1985. When I did my first half Ironman in 1986, they had Kona slots back when you could do general registration up to around June. After that, you have to "qualify". I almost died in that first half IM from effort (I was just 20) and declined the rolldown. 1991, in Penticton I did my first full Ironman, and felt exactly as bad as after my first half and declined the roll down.

Wildflower 1996, I missed a slot by 8 seconds. Finally 2006 after 15 years of trying since my first Ironman I got a slot in Lake Placid...did Kona that fall...enjoyed it for the competition. 2007, got in on rolldown, but let it roll. After that I tried something like 20 times and only got slots 2 more times. Looking back at it, I was certainly not trying because I loved the course. I enjoyed race week in Kona and racing some of the top athletes in the world...the course....without the championship race, I would not be drawn to it.

Lake Placid, Nice, Roth, Whistler, South Africa, Tremblant, Penticton....I am drawn to those courses. Kona....any other course on the island would be interesting other than the Queen K centric course.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Absolutely not, and anybody that says "yes" is lying to themselves and to you.


I would consider it as a vacation destination race, I guess I'm lying to myself. I traveled from the midwest to race Lavaman primarily because it is on the Kona course. That's not a trip I would make for an Oly otherwise.

"Because it's on The Kona course" wouldn't be a thing if it wasn't The Kona.

I'm racing 2019 IM Arizona as part of Team Smile Train. Will I implode? Will I finish strong? Donate to find out more!
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:

"Because it's on The Kona course" wouldn't be a thing if it wasn't The Kona.

But it is. Sorry, I'm having a little trouble following your cryptic debate style.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [Kula] [ In reply to ]
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Kula wrote:
The swim is nice. :) And running on Ali'i drive isn't bad.


We went there for a vacation and I thought it would be great to do a little swimming, biking, and running. It wasn't that great. There were quit a few people also having the same idea, but not being a 'race situation' it didn't seem like a great place to do any of these. Ali'i drive was terrible in terms of traffic and pedestrians, and getting the bike out to the Queen K was downright dangerous (now under race conditions these would be closed off). Even taking the car through the whole bike route just to get the 'on ground' feel was sort of boring. It was fun to visit, but I don't think I would ever do a race there other than the championship.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
Kula wrote:
The swim is nice. :) And running on Ali'i drive isn't bad.



We went there for a vacation and I thought it would be great to do a little swimming, biking, and running. It wasn't that great. There were quit a few people also having the same idea, but not being a 'race situation' it didn't seem like a great place to do any of these. Ali'i drive was terrible in terms of traffic and pedestrians, and getting the bike out to the Queen K was downright dangerous (now under race conditions these would be closed off). Even taking the car through the whole bike route just to get the 'on ground' feel was sort of boring. It was fun to visit, but I don't think I would ever do a race there other than the championship.

+1 and would anywhere else be as fast a course? Other roads while more scenic would be hillier, slower and more narrow from what I remember.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
jkhayc wrote:

"Because it's on The Kona course" wouldn't be a thing if it wasn't The Kona.

But it is. Sorry, I'm having a little trouble following your cryptic debate style.

The whole premise of this thread was what if it wasn't The Kona.

I'm racing 2019 IM Arizona as part of Team Smile Train. Will I implode? Will I finish strong? Donate to find out more!
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Re: Would You Do a 140.6 on the Kona Course that is not MDot Branded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If I had finished 25 or 30 other ultra distance tris around the world in all the spots I wanted to travel and hadn't done IM Kona, I think I'd probably seriously consider doing a 140.6 in Kona that was no longer MDot branded just because of the history of the course. There aren't that many that finish 25 or 30 ultra distance tris around the world. I didn't.

I've trained all around the Big Island so I agree that the Kona course isn't the most beautiful or challenging that could be created on the island, but I don't think the course is ugly. I loved looking at the ocean on one side, the mountains on the other and the warm sun almost always on me. It's certainly a challenging course with the weather conditions. The run along Alii is certainly not boring.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: Apr 29, 19 18:48
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