I think its a "relative boring". Given all the other riding and running on the big island the Hawaii Ironman is the most unimaginative course given all the options on the big island. Its definitely more exciting than freeway in Houston.

Really? there is no one on the bike course for over 165km and no one on the course for about 17km of the run. There is no support there other than the drink stations.


Perfectly put.


Yeah because dodging cars when the race isn't on is so much fun. 100% not boring with the goal to survive

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I didn't write that the bike course wasn't boring. I wrote that I didn't think it was ugly.

If I was someone who has been doing tris for more than a decade including multiple IM finishes but no IM Kona attempt I think I'd jump at the chance to do the Kona course if the MDot branded race suddenly disappeared and was replaced by an event organized by a well-known race production company. But I like history and tough conditions.

I don't particularly care that it's Ironman branded, but I do care that it's a world championship and that's why I would like to qualify (I most likely won't, I'm slowly realizing I don't like them all that much). Frankly, I would prefer that it wasn't in Hawaii at all...

I'd rather go to France, Spain, or Switzerland for a race. I just prefer those places.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Sorry to correct your history, but they raced in Kona in ‘81 and both times in ‘82 in Kona. John Howard’s winning in ‘81 and Tinley (Scott) in Feb ‘82 before Dave won his second race in October. Remember Julie crawling on Ali’i In Feb. ‘82?
Yes, it is miserable and no I have no desire to race there unless it is the Ironman World Championships.

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Team Zoot So Cal

If the course is so bad, I probably wouldn't do it either way. The only factor in it's favour seems to be that Hawaii would be a nice spot for a holiday.
The brand is of no importance to me. The location, course, price, and date all are.

Yes really !

i thought the support out on kona by anyone and everyone was fantastic ,i not saying the course was lined 3 deep with supporters ,i mean the support you got from the people on the island volunteers the events officials and locals

Always good to check back in at Slowtwitch and see what interesting hypotheticals are flying. To belabor the point, no, no one would build a race around Kona today. In the same vein, no, the Cubs would not build Wrigley Field today, nor the Red Sox build Fenway, or Liverpool build Anfield. These places are valued for other reasons.

I wouldnt call it that bad, you have nice views of the ocean etc. That said, I have nver selected a race because of the course. Having a nice spot for a vacation afterwards or something my family would lke, yes, but the race course itself, doesnt matter. Training in nice places, sure.

Ok, maybe correction, I will do a Swissman this summer, thats pretty spectacular and different, so in this case the course certainly made a difference.

So would I do Kona if it was just another race (Mdot or not), probably not, too far away and too expensive to get to

Have you run Alii during non rush hour traffic at a time other than the weeks surrounding IM? I've done it multiple times and the traffic wasn't too bad.

Not a chance would I do an indie on the same course. And if it were just another IM in the series, and not the WC, I doubt I would do it either. That said, I am going on a Legacy spot this October and very much looking forward to the travel/tourist aspect because I've never been to the big island and have been planning on all the places my wife and I are going ... and I'll fit the race in too as a sidebar. But this is not a course I would select to do apart from the hoopla of the World Championship because of the heat.

When it's all over, I very much doubt that Kona will make the top 5 of the IM destination races I've done. If I can hold myself together three more years I would really like to end my full distance career at IM Wales at age 65. It looks so much more epic than Kona in just about every aspect.

I totally agree with you Mark. As a photographer, I see tons of beauty there. However, on race day, sorry Dev, but if you're admiring the scenery you sure as hell are not racing (yourself or others). I've raced a number of courses throughout the world, but if I want to see the course it's a trip before or after. Race day is blinder time unless it's going in the tank for you.....

I think its a really pretty course and if I ever wanted to do a full ironman again and they had one there that was non M-dot I would want to do it. In the meantime, I will happily go do Lavaman every year - awesome olympic-distance race on part of IM course starting at Waikaloa Village. Also, Waikaloa Village is nice place for a vacation where you can get a bunch of training in.

I thought about this and I imagined if you rewind this back to 1982. They move the race from Oahu in February to Kona in October. They had two Ironmans the same year. //

I believe someone already corrected you, there were only 3 races on Oahu, last being in 1980. I went to Kona in 1980 for the first February race that was held in 1981, then two more in 82 to change the date to October.


And keep in mind that when the race course was first implemented, there was on stop light on the island, there were no hotels or things along the hwy out by Waikailoa, and the Queen K hwy was the only one with a shoulder for bikes. And as far as I can tell, it is still the only road on the island with a shoulder. So not sure why you think the saddle road, or the one to south point would be a better choice, other than some climbing and trees. But for practical purposes, the widest road with a bike lane is really the only choice for so many people. And also keep in mind that the swim basically had to be where it was/is, that little downtown of Kona was all there was there, with the few condo complexes along Alli drive out to the Sheraton. So the bike and runs had to start and work their way through that 7 mile stretch of town, only question was which direction to go afterwards. They chose right, and it remains the right course for that race.


Now if you have only 30 people, then the Ultraman is fine to go out on the other roads, there really is no impact with a few dozen people. But in the 1000's, you have to consider what impact that is..

As a “what if.” What if IM pulled off Championship Saturday as it is today, with open registration Sunday the next day. With say, a $1,000.00 entry fee you can race IM-Kona non-pro day? You get to experience championship week, but your day is Sunday. No pros. Just race. Same course, same brand, next day? Hmmmm. I’d probably be down.

Yes, but only because Hawaii also provides a great vacation spot. Personally, I think the "beautiful scenery" aspect of any in-race experience is highly overrated so I don't care that it is desolate. I barely notice the terrain around me. Bike, computer, water bottles, maybe a few athletes. I really don't pay much attention to anything else.

I would, absolutely.. the swim is iconic, the lava fields are glorious for those of us who like low stimulation environments..
(though the run would be unpleasant as I've lost my heat acclimatization)

What if Kona denied the permit? What if the volunteers said "Just say no!"?

They have added bike lanes and shoulders on some roads, and the whole climb up from Waikoloa has a bike lane/shoulder now. Palani has a bike lane once it passes the Queen K all the way up to the mountain road. There are others too. I went to Kona this past October for a holiday with some training, and I rode every day, but only a bit on the Queen K (to get to where I really wanted to ride). It is the worst road by far to ride on the island, in my experience.

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

For me, I would race a non-Ironman branded on the Kona course. In fact I would rather do a non-Ironman iron distance race on the Kona course, especially if it is in a significantly reduced field, say 1,000-1,500. It is about the challenge of the course conditions that would bring me to race in Kona and not the prestige.

It is the worst road by far to ride on the island, in my experience. //

I agree with you Jack, I have ridden every single road on that island, many times. I too enjoy the climb over to Hilo, or the tree tunnels that go to south point way more than the Queen K. But I think we are talking about hosting 2k + athletes in a race here, aren't we? I just don't see how any of those great "solo" rides would suit a big time race. I believe they got it right the very first year, and with the improvements over the years, still have it right. I suppose they could go right at kawaihai, instead of going to Havi, but that would not change the course that much.


But doing a Saddle road race across the island and back, or some loop, would certainly change the dynamic, and maybe the top 20 would shuffled up a bit...

Yeah, I think the course should change to go straight up Palani to the mountain road, then left to where it meets Waikoloa and back down to the road that leads to Kawaihai then to Hawi, then it could come back via the Queen K. The climb up Palani is 8-11% sustained and the mountain road is super lumpy so the field would get very broken up in the first 40-60k which would allow the Queen K to be a cheating free road for once.

I keep dreaming about that course, and I think it would be workable, as the Queen K would be open early (while the Mountain road is partially closed), which I think would be easier on the locals than the current impact on the roads... (this is just in my imagination, I have not studied the traffic patterns nor asked any locals about this, but it seems better!).

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

I hadn't thought of that route, so the road that all the fans have to drive to go out and see folks at waikailoa and kahawai, then down the steep and winding road to be back on the original course. I like it. That way they could keep the airport road open longer too, and that stretch to town is now the busiest road on the island. And they could have one way traffic on it all day too!! Sign me up!!!

There is such a 140.6: Alohaman Extreme on Dec 7.

Regarding the original question, one exception to that rule might be Epic5 - the Big Island leg is the final one, and they do (pretty much) the IMWC course, just much later in the day. Your buddy Tim Sheeper had home-field advantage on that day.

Ian

From http://www.teammango.org/monster_map_rules.html !!!LOL!!!

"SWIM: Swim Fins and Wetsuits allowed. Large and Unusual Swim Caps (Cowman Horns) ALLOWED. While
on the SWIM course GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP will be observed at ALL TIMES."