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Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100)
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I kinda posted about this way back when they announced the series. Looking from the outside and having not participated, these are just comments.

Now, keep in mind that I do product marketing for a living. Introducing new products is a tricky thing. If you are a startup company (which the 101 series is), it is even harder. If you are competing in a market against a big incumbent (NAS/WTC bohemoth) with an established customer base it gets even harder. The smart money says that you want to differentiate your product sufficiently to address a slightly different market need from what the incumbent is servicing. I'm not sure that 101 offers lots of differentiation...feel like they are to some extent taking on the established offerings head on.

A distance of 2/88/10 (all miles)...or even 2/90/8, seems like it would fit a better niche. Here is why. Compared to other established triathlons, this format offers a so called "unbalanced" format. Pretty well most triathlons come down to the run. You have to be a good runner to do well. I come from a running background, so I've always like the fact that non runners cannot hide their run weakness in the final leg...especially when you got up to 13 miles...you really can't fake those last 6 miles! However, the demographic of triathlon is changing. Fields are become older. Moreover, the profile is going away form more of the "hard core racer, often with great running genetics" to "participant" likely not from a "natural runner" stock.

If I survey many long course athletes that I have spoken with, their thought is, well, if I am going to do that much training, I may as well do an Ironman...and there you have it....101 is competing head to head for mindshare and $$$ with the same guy who is thinking Ironman and likely that Mdot tatoo.

So what about the concept of 2/88/10 (total 100 miles). Such a format offers the following:
  1. Those with limited running background/genetics can still take the leap to the longer race pretty safely
  2. Both Pros and Age groupers can race this distance harder and more often than the current 101 and likley just as often as half Ironman.
  3. Such an event can serve as a training/feeder/compliment to Ironman
  4. Aging athletes with joint/overuse issues can still compete at the long distance without having to put in the run volume required in both half and full ironman
  5. It offers a race format where the strong swim-biker can excel (ST "first to T2 approved" format...)...and nothing wrong with that...think of it as a swim-bike aquathon with finish line deferred for 10 mile assuming that the first to T2 guy can hang in with a respectable pace and not slow down.

Would those of you already committed to Ironman races with dreams of the Mdot tattoo and Kona slots add such an event into your program? Would those of you who cannot do big running volume add this to your program? Would you make something like this your "A" race? Would pros throw a few of these in over the year to pad their prize money possiblities while getting solid training in for 70.3 or 140.6 events?

What do you folks out there think? 30K of running just seems like a "no man's land" when it comes to racing!
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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By my estimate, two-thirds of the race is on the bike. I'm not sure you'd get swimmers and runners motivated to sign up for it.


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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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10 miles does sounds more reasonable than 18+. If I'm training for 18 miles of running it's going to feel like marathon training.

I would like to participate in this series and my favorite distance so far is 70.3 so I 'm very intrigued by this 101 thing but 18 does sound a lot heavier than 13 miles of running.

Keep at em Dev, see if you can get them to shorten the run.
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [parkito] [ In reply to ]
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Who cares if we get runners signing up for this event?

It would be an event that caters to the swim-bikers who happen to like to do a bit of running but don't care to do too much of it...what's wrong with that???...we could cater a bit more to the swimmers, by making the swim a full 2.4 miles, keep the bike at 88, and then bring the run down to 9.3 miles (15K)....the other .3 miles could be the fudge factor in transition to bring it up to 100 even. Or even 2.4 mile swim-91 mile bike ride-6.2 mile run...(OK fine, a 10K run will not make you guys happy).

...my main point is that there seem to be enough events that caters to runners.

If you are a startup, you might want to differentiate your product sufficiently to sell lots of your product and maximize your revenue. The fixed cost of running such a series does not change from the current 101. The variable cost associated with each event does not change either....but your top line might go up a lot for the same overall cost structure...in any business bigger margins are good...you don't need to be rock star CFO of a Nasdaq traded Tech company to figure that out!!!

Who are we crowning as World Champ for this distance? Can anyone touch Norman or Bjorn :-) (you knew that his name would come up, so what the heck, I may as well put it there...)

Dev
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I like the 101 format as it is and hope to do one or two next year.

Herbert
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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"Or even 2.4 mile swim-91 mile bike ride-6.2 mile run"

That's a crazy imbalance. At that distance I'd spend about 55 min in the water, 40 min running, but nearly 4 hours on the bike.

I'm certainly not a runner and prefer time on the bike, but that doesn't seem to compare very evenly to me.

"swim a full 2.4 miles, keep the bike at 88, and then bring the run down to 9.3 miles"

That's a little better in my eyes. I think 70.3 has a good balance already though....so why not take their starting point, add some to the swim and bike and leave the run the same (or close)? Maybe something like 2/85/13? Still throw way in the favor of the bike (as far as time spent in the discipline)....
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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duuuuude. big swim... big bike... little run.

MY RACE! :)

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [MarkyV] [ In reply to ]
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I would place much better in this format...maybe it's not such a bad idea afterall....
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Why not just make the run 100m? Might as well go all the way with pussifying it.
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Having just done Clear Lake, I would agree. With a 30K run I only signed up as a stepping stone to my `A' race (IMC), and would probably only sign up again for the same reason. Make it a 2 mile swim, 85 mile bike, and a 13.1 mile run (100.1 miles) and I could see doing this every year as a much more approachable race.
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [synchronicity] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]Why not just make the run 100m? Might as well go all the way with pussifying it.[/reply]

No kidding. Or just cut out the swim too and make it a bike tour. It's called TRI-ATHLON. That means swim/bike/run.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I've always felt the ITU had it right in the balance of 1.5/40/10 (in kms).

Just multiply those distances:
3/80/20
4.5/120/30
6/160/40

I've retired from long course racing anyways. Sprint and Oly's are too much fun!!!
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I'm totally with you on this one. I think DD brought up some of the same observations when 101 was announced. I, for one, would love to race these-Yeck, I do race them-all alone, on weekends. The shorter run-8 miles- is perfect and I'm always looking for a competitive bike. Also, maybe with a shorter race time the entry fee would less ;-)
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I like!
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I guess the Ironman athlete's staple 100 mile ride-4 mile transition run is a pussy workout too :-)

It is just a suggestion.

The option I presented would be an alternative to what is available today (races whose outcome favour a reasonably strong runner). The interesting thing is that no one gets bent out of joint when a pro does an Ironman with 50 minutes of swimming-4:30 biking-2:50 running (look how little time they are spending in the water...). Even if you look the differential possible in each sport, you'll see that in the FOP pros, the most that the biggest swim diff is only 5 min, on the bike 10-15 minutes, on the run it can easily be 20 min (2:50 vs 3:10).....so how is this fair...maybe we need to double the swim and add 50% to the bike to make the outcome fair....or cut the Ironman run in half to make the outcome fair, while doubling the swim if everyone wants a really balanced race?

I'm not talking about making a race "fair and balanced". I'm talking about a race that opens up long course racing to a different participation demographic...and rather than compete with Ironman and half Ironman, you can work with it and offer a complimentary solution, that can serve as its own legit series, while also serving as a feeder/complimentary offering.

Think of a family that is going to have 2 cars in the driveway...usually you have the "bigger family van or SUV" and then there is a "relatively smaller car" (or at least this trend is common in Canada as a large car is not needed all the time). The Ironman is the big car....this 100/101 solution would be the second car....and there is lots of good business that is also done selling those second cars...and for many that smaller car is their first car....they won't care to move up to the big car!

Anyway, these are just thoughts. It is interesting to see the discussion. I have to say that locally, (and we have had a 4/120/30) race now in the Ottawa region off and on for 5 years (or have gone to race in Nice, Ibiza etc etc), most people who do it once are done with it. They don't go back. It is their warmup race the year before an Ironman, or in between.

With the suggested format, you suck in all the studs vying for Ironman PB's this year. Every coach will recommend this race to the athlete with an Ironman later in the year...think about it....5x2000 IMNA athlete suddenly become your target customers....you are no longer competing with the IMNA athlete for mindshare and forcing them to make a choice on an "A" race....yes, you are conceding for that segment of the market that this race is the "B" race, but if you can even get 30% to sign up as the B race, that is 3000 more participants!!! Then there is everyone else who uses it as an A race, simply because they cannot run as much but want to bike and swim long....right now, if I person can't run much their only realistic triathlon option is Olympic or sprint. They have no long course option!

Dev
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting suggestion.

Even though I'm not a great runner, that is what I train the hardest for. To stay with or beat people that are/were better than me is my drive.

That being said, if that format was around I would seriously consider it. I'm thinking that 2/83/15 might be a better compromise but then someone might say, "I should just do a HIM."

jaretj
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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From a semantic point of view '101' has a very different connotation to '100'. I'm not sure if 101 sends the right message for a race of this type. This is the kind of stuff i do at work so this may be a little bit out there......
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]Who cares if we get runners signing up for this event?
It would be an event that caters to the swim-bikers who happen to like to do a bit of running but don't care to do too much of it...what's wrong with that???...we could cater a bit more to the swimmers, by making the swim a full 2.4 miles, keep the bike at 88, and then bring the run down to 9.3 miles (15K)....the other .3 miles could be the fudge factor in transition to bring it up to 100 even. Or even 2.4 mile swim-91 mile bike ride-6.2 mile run...(OK fine, a 10K run will not make you guys happy).
...my main point is that there seem to be enough events that caters to runners.
If you are a startup, you might want to differentiate your product sufficiently to sell lots of your product and maximize your revenue. The fixed cost of running such a series does not change from the current 101. The variable cost associated with each event does not change either....but your top line might go up a lot for the same overall cost structure...in any business bigger margins are good...you don't need to be rock star CFO of a Nasdaq traded Tech company to figure that out!!!
Who are we crowning as World Champ for this distance? Can anyone touch Norman or Bjorn :-) (you knew that his name would come up, so what the heck, I may as well put it there...)
Dev[/reply]

GREAT points. I have never thought of doing an IM or even half IM because my running is horrible. But with the numbers above I certainly would think about it and probably try one.

You may have said this already but also another good reason for such distances is more and more triathletes are ahhh shall we say heavy. So of course the running takes the biggest toll on them in training and racing. A Tri with shorter run as in the above very well may interest them in doing a longer tri.
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [UK Gear Muncher] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]From a semantic point of view '101' has a very different connotation to '100'. I'm not sure if 101 sends the right message for a race of this type. This is the kind of stuff i do at work so this may be a little bit out there......[/reply]


I never thought of the name being 101 until this thread. I am 100% in support of the 101 races and like the fact that they now have shorter distances too.

But with that being said the name 101 to me conjures up the first and easiest classes in college. So it makes me think of a short sprint for beginnners.

I do see the name not going with the actual event.
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [RBR] [ In reply to ]
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What about something like 1.5m swim/45 mile bike/10 mile run? Long enough to hurt; short enough to race and recover pretty quickly. I think the best scenario would be to bring back a series of races w/mixed distances. Sort of like the old Bud Light series, but with Olympic, One0One, etc.

P

Pat Dwyer
@pdwyer99
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [patd] [ In reply to ]
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That's a pretty short swim :)

jaretj
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [patd] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]What about something like 1.5m swim/45 mile bike/10 mile run? Long enough to hurt; short enough to race and recover pretty quickly. I think the best scenario would be to bring back a series of races w/mixed distances. Sort of like the old Bud Light series, but with Olympic, One0One, etc.
P[/reply]


I don't think a lot of people would do that race as they would think why not just step it up a bit more and then they could say they did a half IM.
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [patd] [ In reply to ]
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too similar to 70.3. Like Dev says, finding a different demographic of athletes to participate and not have to compete with 70.3 or IM distance events is the key.

I like this: 2.4s 88b 9.3r

After participating in Long Course Worlds in Nice France ( 2.4/75/18) the run certainly felt like a marathon.

_________________
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I'll be in line right behind MarkyV to sign up for this one!!
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Re: Would Tri 101 grow bigger if it was 2/88/10 (OK, it would be tri100) [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Can't say I've ever done a 100 mile ride-4 mile transition run. Ever.

I just find it amusing that people who haven't done a particular race want to change it (and not just the 101 series). Or want to change races to fit their specific strength. But hey--feel free to start up your own race. As Greg termed it, "pussyfying" things seems to be driving more and more long time triathletes to other events and sports. The way it's going pretty soon all triathlon races will be feel good tours instead of athletic competitons. I sure hope not. And in case you've forgotten, the original Ironman was based on three separate events, hence the distances. If they'd been sitting in the bar worrying about making it "fair", we'd all be playing tiddlywinks today.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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