>>A much more interesting question to me is not what will draw more women to an all-women's triathlon, but what will draw more women to seriously male-dominated events like the Escape From Alcatraz and the Wildflower Long Course? <<

I think the main thing is mentoring. ~Show~ them it can be done (and not just by uber-fit young babes). I can see their mind begin working and know that the "if she can do an Ironman, well, maybe I can too" thoughts have started.

Steps to take?
* Talk about your experiences at races like that. I'm always being asked about Ironman.
* Training support (an option besides the testosterone-filled hammer ride).
* A little pushing and prodding once that thought ~is~ in the back of their mind.
* Practical advice on (1) getting into the race (for WF and Alcatraz), (2) travel, (3) logistics, (4) bike stuff--fixing a flat, etc.
* Support, NOT coddling.
* Be out there, answer questions, go to lunch when a newbie asks and answer all their questions and tell them stories.

Women's only races--I have mixed feelings about them. I don't do Danskin (no men! horrors in my book). I do do Barb's Race (women's only half) which is the same day as the full Vineman. The new series sounds ARRGGHH! Cutesy isn't even close. What is needed are more BEGINNER races, like the tri for fun series out here, not more women's races. The Pleasanton TFF series is now over 50% women and they sell out well in advance. Mark divides the waves into groups of 100: (1) "experienced" triathletes, (2) multiple men/women age groups (like 20-29, 30-39), (3) "the last wave" (a bit leery of the swim). Numbers 1 and 3 are self seeded. It works really well.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

My first tri was a women's only sprint. It certainly helped me to know that it was only going to be women there. Much less competitive, I believe. However, it probably would have been a similar atmosphere had it been a beginners-only race that had men and women. Now I have no interest in doing a women's only race. I like having men there to motivate me to work harder.

If the cutesy stuff is what is needed to attract beginner women, then I have no problem with it. But I think you're right - many of the things they mentioned would be appreciated in all races.

Dawn

I reacted same way to the article, but would not have voiced it (except I did to my wife) out of fear of being called a pig. I certainly would not mind clean (and more) toilets and certainly would not complain about showers, but don't know if that really would have anything to do with drawing more women. I certainly never have heard a woman say that she does not do triathlons because the toilets are dirty and she wants a shower afterwards.

I do not think there is as much of a sexual split in triathlons as there is in many other sports. I actually wish our results were not split male and female. Not only do I have to check separate results to check my girlfriend's results, but as a reasonably competive 43 year old, I often consider the best women to be great competition. I do not want to beat them because they are women, I just consider them to be a gauge of a pretty damn good race for me. Many of the guys in our area would like nothing more than to beat our 55 year old female stud. Most fail miserably. If a primary goal of a 25 year old male is to beat a 55 year old female, I think that actually says great things about this sport.

In the Whitelake, NC half last weekend there were 350/308 male starters and finishers and 149/122 females and sprint there were 287 males and 191 females.

"I wonder why Jim Curl feels the need to add the "little touches" -- I dunno, it just seems a little cutesy"

my understanding is that these are the things that came out of a lot of his informal polls. as i was writing it up, i kind of liked all that stuff. but not for women, for everybody. except i might forego the spaghetti straps (for me personally).

years ago, when jim was head of the operations of races i put on, i was always bugging him about stuff like that. the food. the toilets. and a few other things that we did that i still think were way ahead of their time, and still aren't being done by anybody else that i know of.

if you're a girl and you get a question, "what would you like to see specifically at a women's only race that would be appealing," what would you list? when things like cleanliness and comeradery are mentioned, one might discern where some of curl's initiatives come from.

monty and i have a course figured out right now (for a half, men and women) and are investigating the availability and cost of getting the course. if we do end up putting on a race next year, i'll seriously consider some of this stuff curl is doing. it's the sort of stuff you think about when you ponder why some races have 200 people and others 2000.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I'm a female and have some issues with women-only tris. I feel that their existance is inherently coddling. This might have to do with my age - 20's - maybe older women grew up to feel that sports were to be avoided and so there is fear associated with sports. I was never a particularly athletic kid, but I never thought I couldn't give it a shot if I had the interest. Because of that, I don't really understand the need to ease women into the sport. Anyway, the view at co-ed races is too good to be missed;)

vogel

Hear, hear on the Pleasanton Tri-for-Fun series. They are awesome. Well-run, nice location, good support. A great way to practice transition skills or other aspects of a race that you can only get in - well, a race. And yet because racers don't get official times - is that still true other than the Tri-For-Real? - there is a slightly less competitive atmosphere that takes some of the pressure off beginners or those building confidence. I've never done a women-only race - though not be design, it just hasn't worked out that way - but I think they have a place especially for women whose goals are less about competition and more about achieving something they had not thought possible. Barb's Race seems to be the best of both worlds because it's a distinct women's event held in the midst of the full distance Vineman, which gives it a really cool atmosphere. The Danskin sprint events offer a valuable service to the sport: they are a place for all those BOPer's who have been getting so much bandwidth lately to learn the rules. I think we need more of these events and the Tri-For-Fun coed events as well. At the Palo Alto JCC, they used to run a wonderful little sprint tri series each summer using the pool and the neighborhood roads. It was coed, there was competition if you wanted it, or not, and it was a very friendly atmosphere. We sometimes raced it, sometimes volunteered it. I hope they are able to get it going again when they get their new location.

As to Curl's ideas, I showed them to my husband to get his opinion on whether they were girl issues, or would appeal to men as well, a sample size of one but you gotta start somewhere. Admittedly his jaw slacked a little on the spaghetti strap thing, but otherwise he thought all the improvements were long overdue.

Mantis,

Wow a wife and a girlfriend - good for you :)

I totally agree with your statement about considering the best woman as great competition. As a runner, it easier for me to pick out the top-5 woman in a race than it is the top-50 guys. I don't need to beat them because they're woman. If I beat them, it means I'm having a very good race. That's much more important.

Zeke

Actually, it should have been "girlfriends'" but my wife says unless they will share all of the duties, they can not share the burden of my love, but I do check their times.

Many may say it is a race against the clock, but I like the competition with others. Some I have been racing or chasing in some cases, for 15+ years. If if is a man, woman, old or young I don't care, as long as they help me push.

Along same lines but with age only, kind of neat thing in our sprint race this weekend with regard to age- right up there in 5th and 6th place with all of the 20 and 30 somethings were a 15yr old (ranked first in age group in nation, I am told) and a 52 yr old, 12 seconds apart.

Asked my wife about this. She runs about a half dozen sprint/oly tris a season with one of them being a women's only event. She does this event largely since it's quite a distance away from where we live and it gives her an excuse to make a long weekend to visit some non triathlon that live in that area.

She tells me that women don't need to be coddled or have everything painted pink. She says women only events are a good event for women newbies but she wouldn't consider running them regularly because she finds it to be more fun beating men (including me).

No coddling for me, please! As an "older woman" (45), I have no desire to do a women's only tri. Why would I want to put a race effort into a race with limited competition?

I did my first tri 7 years ago and never felt uncomfortable because there were guys around........don't understand that thought process at all.

I remember playing 1/2 court basketball in high school because full court was considered too strenuous for girls........30 years later, why would I want any part of a race that even remotely perpetuated the idea that women are unable to compete on the same level as men?

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It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.

I see women's only events as an beginner's intro to the sport. I can think of a couple of friends that were bitten by the tri bug at a Danskin event. They way I see it, you will get a segment of women that are doing the event just to complete it or check-off a lifetime to do list (a la TnT) and some women that will ultimately move on to participate in races like WF LC and Alcatraz. I think it's great that there are more events catering to beginners. Also, the "cutesy" factor compounds itself as women's only races court sponsors like women's magazines and cosmetics companies, etc.

As for veteran racers and women's only races, I agree with Ironclm here. These are a great opportunity to mentor other women that may have thought about making the jump to a more male dominated race. I chose to race Danskin last year because it was a fast, flat and chip timed event and I wanted accurate splits on a flat course. As it turned out, the race wasn't conducive to an all out effort for me, but I was able to answer many questions from first timers racked nearby in transition. I will consider volunteering at this event in the future (hasn't happened due to scheduling conflicts).

If the all women races get more people interested in the sport, then that's great. But my initial response is to keep far away from them.

I like having the dudes around. They bring a different perspective to the race, and keep the tone of things surrounding the race from being too touchy-feely. And no, I don't want to have to deal with people nagging me to "Smile!" as I cross the finish line. If I wanted to have to remember specific facial expressions while competing, I woulda been a cheerleader.

I like competing, and find it fun to see where I rank at the end of the race against everyone else there, and figure out where I need to improve most. An untimed race, isn't a race to me, so I can see paying the $30-$50 and not getting results from it.

Toilet paper would be nice, but if there's a situation requiring it, I tend to figure out the nearest gas station to the race, and use their full metal indoor plumbing for those things. (and buy an extra Gatorade there to 'pay for' said use)

45 isn't even middle age, is it? My reference to my age was made to cover the Title IX argument. All I know is the way things are now, but my mom has watched what I've done with running and triathlon and mentioned that she would have liked to have had the opportunity (I tell her it's not too late ...) That being said, I like the way things are now. Pretty pink powderpuffs don't belong in a sport where peeing on your equipment is acceptable;)

"Pretty pink powderpuffs don't belong in a sport where peeing on your equipment is acceptable;)"

why not? i know some super girly girls who rock in sports. a lady i used to race with in idaho had all her bikes painted pink and made sure she had lipstick on before a race.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Nope! I'm planning to go well over 90!

I think we are in total agreement on this. Not being a girly-girl in the first place, I certainly don't want to think about that stuff while racing. I do know some women who are quick to "freshen up" post-race........but the lipstick stuff isn't for me!

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It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.

"if we do end up putting on a race next year, i'll seriously consider some of this stuff curl is doing. it's the sort of stuff you think about when you ponder why some races have 200 people and others 2000."

Dan,

Like it or not triathlons, marathons and other running and endurance type of events are becoming competitive businesses.

It's those "little touchs", that point of differentitation in business terms, that will possibly set a race apart and ahead of it's competion.

I think that the next few years with all these sold out races should be very interesting. With field sizes fixed the only way to increase race revenue is to increase entry fees( what is the break-point tolerance on that?) and/or increase sponsorship, principally on ths cash side( This has been and will remain a tough sell). What will happen when triathlon and marathon participation plateaus, or starts to drop off? What then?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog