You know how often I hear "wow, cant beleive you dont have a carbon handlebar"...yeah, I have full Record, nice wheels and a custom frame...I however like my teeth far too much to risk a carbon bar.

PLUS - a Deda Newton Alu bar weighs 35gm LESS than an EC-70 and just 5gm more than the SLX...for my 5gm I will put on a little less bar tape.


I've seen one snapped bar in all my years cycling. It was aluminum and it just gave out on the poor fellow on a pretty quick little descent. Of course, carbon bars are relatively newer and have fewer cumulative miles.

I hate these threads. Now I'm gonna be a little freaked out each time I get on the bike for the next few days.

.

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Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.

My SLC SL owning friend says it may have been installed improperly. Something about a compression ring or something needing to be oriented with the wedge sideways rather than forward or back.

I personally don't understand why it's so complicated but I'm glad I don't have to deal with it on my bike.

No matter what I replace my Alu bars every three years or so...even less if I lay em down. Not saying that Alu dont break...just that I have a bit more faith in it. Carbon bars are great for pro's who will have a new set next week.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I think that they are now sending out the forks with a longer 125mm insert preglued and the fork cut to the size of the frame. I **think** that you can still tap down the start nut and cut the fork down a little, but not much. The math issue really is a mess. I think that the critical measurement is getting the insert to extend 10mm below the upper headset bearing. It seems as though many shops adhered to that as the number one measurement, while others simply followed misleading (or maybe just wrong) stack height max numbers. I have to admit, I have spent a great deal of time researching and watching this issue and I still can't figure out the best or correct way to do this. I want to use the SL fork that came with my SLC, but I just don't know.

Now you know why lance would never ride with those carbon steerers...WOW. I will suck up the extra weight with the alum.
Glad your ok...See if you can get a wolf fork with the alum steer. Hope is covered under warranty.

Not the compression ring, but the aluminum steerer sleeve. If you look, it was installed properly (groove to the left or right, not front or back). Yes, ridiculously meticulous instructions for a fork and how that could make that much of a difference I can't see) . Needless to say it was NOT on my replacement list ;)

Sorry to *freak* everyone out, but sometimes these threads are good for the winter equipment checks!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

DUDE...Glad you are safe...I have only ripped the rear derailluer hanger off a frame coming from an intersection...far less dangerous!!

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
Ruble Racing Events Midwest Triathlon Racing
Ruble Timing Midwest Event Timing

Lets not forget these oldies but goodies images...



And dont forget...some fancy Alu forks break too

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Two things:

1) How is your bike?

2) Why not call Cervelo on Monday or stop by your shop? They might at least get you a new fork and if you don't want to use that one, then sell it for some coin to offset the cost of a new one.

That said, glad you are ok.

Bob

Bikes fine - small nick in the paint near the head tube as far as I can see. Went over her pretty good after - standing start and only got up to about 10-15 mph I reckon through the intersection. Again, I was very lucky here. Even did a pissed of 45 min run after since I only got to bike 4 miles!

That photo above was Hincapie's bike at Paris-Roubaix I think. Mine broke exactly there (just below the aluminum steerer insert). Again, I have NO spacers and that insert was right near my top headset. I think they are longer (125mm) now as cincytri has mentioned. Nice way to find out!

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

You can google it, but I think Scott Daubert and Trek discovered some sort of metal fatgigue caused the Hincapie break. Of course his was a damn near new steerer tube, though.

I still say call Cervelo and get a new fork.

Bob

I guess the ADC is quite a bit better weight wise. The wolf SL is 12.2 oz, while the Profile ADC is 14.6 oz.. I wouldn't say that is a brick by any stretch of the imagination. Now the BDC is about 1.5 pounds so yeah, it's a brick.

Dave

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

rroof.... happy to hear you arent in too bad of a shape. two weeks ago on a training ride, one of the athlete at the camp broke is carbon handelbar on a specilized bike. Like you, at the red light, starting to roll and out of the saddle... but nothing bad happen!

when i look at the pic of your fork.... do you know how deep inside the headset was the aluminum insert???

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

i would go with either the wolf CL or something from easton. glad you are ok

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____________________________________________________________
Link to my photography
http://davidsavoiephotography.blogspot.com/
http://davidsavoiesports.blogspot.com/

jonnyo -

The aluminum insert was right at the top of the headset, so not far enough! I just measured the small broke off piece of steerer tube, and it is only 54mm long (2 and 1/8th inch) so that aluminum insert piece must only be about 2 inches (50mm) or less. I read the *new* ones are 125mm? That is quite a difference. Cervelo (or True Temper) must have know this was an issue? I'd check yours on your R3 (and P3C) just to be safe/sure.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

when i saw the pic.... that is what i was thinking, i do beleive it as to be deeper inside the headset to be safe. But if your insert was short???......that is pretty hard to do.

i dont have the wolf sl.... i have a easton ec 90 that i like a lot and i just check to be sure,and installation seems good:) and a wolf CL on the p3c.

take care of that knee..... !!!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Not metal fatigue, point loading. With a zero stack, as Hincapie and the OP were running, the normal bending forces exerted on the steerer by the stem/handlebar end up being translated as both bending and sheering forces. Granted, Hincapie *supposedly* had his steerer weakened by straightening his stem without loosening bolts, but that's just hearsay AFAIK. I've been told by some reputable carbon companies, known for both their exotic and lightweight bikes as well as their carbon repair services, that the monocoque nature of a carbon steerer behaves slightly different from an alloy one, but how much is an extra 100g really worth?

Regardless of minimum stack requirements from manufacturers, I won't ever recommend running less than 5mm of spacers. That extra 5mm decreases the point loading drastically and *almost* completely eliminates this type of fork failure. I say *almost* because I've dealt with a few who always manage to find a way to break even the most improbabl things while JRA -- including stripping a frame entirely of its BB threads -- so I never say anything's impossible anymore.

Another thing...this is the stem I use on my carbon steerer...CarbonX on the other...I want ROUND everything I dont want my stem face to fall off, bolts break, or any other odd fluke. Is it the lightest? No way...but when I had a Syntace F99 on the bike for about a week I could feel that thing noodle all over hell.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Great, something new to worry about. Two years ago I bent the hell out of the bars on the tribike while I was flying upside down at around 19 mph (I was attacked by aliens and that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Luckily, at the end I was able to jump up and in my best PeeWee Herman say: “I meant to do that.”). The old bars were aluminum but when I went in to get new ones all they had was a CobraWing and they made me a deal on it and I have been happy ever since until this thread. I just went upstairs and looked at it and it looks fine but I don’t think I qualify as a carbon fiber fatigue expert. Anyway to tell if it wearing? Should I just get rid of it? I am very protective of my 55 year old collarbones…..

Rroof - glad all is well except for a little roadrash.
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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
USAT Certified Coach
Precision Nutrition Certified

Dang dude, two weekends in a row?!? As for a replacement, can't go wrong here: http://www.surlybikes.com/forks.html :)

LOL! Yeah, I look really great now at the pool. Bruises and rash on the left hip, left knee/leg, right knee and right elbow. Jeez. Running at 8 tomorrow again? I'll gimp along again and take a day OFF riding ;0

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

That is one of the big issues with carbon. Often there are no signs of stress fractures prior to destructive failure. My thoughs about the high modulous as opposed to woven (again this is MY thought, not based on any science)...is that a woven carbon structure will possibly fracture, but the weave of the fabric may have a chance to sort of hold things together. I have seen this on impact destruction as well as as over stress failure (impact on frames, stress on carbon weave fishing poles that cracked but helt together by the weave).

Every point to create a ridge is bad for any handlebar, or steer tube. Now, if you look at my BigOne Stem, you can see there are three potential ridge points, one on each side of the clamp area, one at the closure area....same with the steer side of the stem. A BIG thing that many folks may look past...sand and other pollutants. If you have sand, metal shavings or any other crap that is common in a shop get under a clamp - it will cause a defect in the material and possibly a wonderful start to a future failure.

Now, how many potential areas are there for crushing damage on this stem? This is other than the fact that the rider has a VERY small area of contact for the stem to secure the bar...or transfer the stress load. One thing you cant see here is the rubber insterts that ship with the F99 that go between the stem and bar (could get a photo from my Bianchi though). Also, the F99 stem REQUIRES a special "lube" that has "grit" in it to keep the bolts torqued (got me, I got the packages of the goop)



Now then there are stems like this super nice Thompson. I have seen bars carbon and Alu very damaged by this stem but not with out allot of help from a mechanic who has no clue or torque wrench for that matter. This stem also leaves the steer tube open to the same crushing damage as the bar...again, with a bad mechanic.



This is the stem that is currently on my Litespeed road bike with a TTT Prima220 (NOS) bar. As you can see, there is a solid clamp for both the bar and steer tube. On the other side what is nice is the torque spec is etched right onto the stem next to each bolt.




But, as you can see here http://www.biketechreview.com/...links/bigonefail.htm the ITM can also be broken (this example was broken on a machine).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

http://freeflite.com/page.cfm?pageid=161

Glad you're okay Rod!

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HEDmafia.com

I think a guy is selling a brand new, uncut Wolf CL in the classified section for only 100 bucks. At least you would then have the alum steerer tube.

Odd, Rod's fork is neither :-)

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?