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Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts?
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Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? Saw another thread before where someone bought a used DI2 bike off probikecloset and found that he was unable to find needed spare parts. I was going to go wireless shifting for fun, but I'm having real second thoughts about it after realizing that could possibly happen, since I don't upgrade my stuff regularly (2008 Cervelo p2c)
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? Saw another thread before where someone bought a used DI2 bike off probikecloset and found that he was unable to find needed spare parts. I was going to go wireless shifting for fun, but I'm having real second thoughts about it after realizing that could possibly happen, since I don't upgrade my stuff regularly (2008 Cervelo p2c)

Yup.

Already seen it with Etap, and 1st gen Di2.

But then, it’s the same for mechanical. I’ve made the decision to “upgrade”, if I can, my road bike to 10 speed, if I can find a set of shifters. Scouring eBay for what I want, I can’t just walk into a shop and buy a set of 10s dura ace shifters, and going to 11 means upgrading pretty much everything.

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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Shimano abandoned its first gen DA Di2 pretty early. The same could happen for first gen eTap. But, at some point you gotta trust. Same problem for all electronic shifting.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Shimano abandoned its first gen DA Di2 pretty early. The same could happen for first gen eTap.

It already has.

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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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Indeed. I almost bought a used bike with Di2 on it. Luckily my friend cued me in that it would be very difficult to find parts as Shimano had discontinued that version. I stuck with mechanical.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I concur, I’m sticking with mechanical. Good availability of 9/10/11 speed bar end shivers for example. I’m just astounded how quickly SRAM moved on from eTap v1. It’s already fairly hard to find parts for that group.

With bike manufactures the real gravy is selling the new bike. Replacement parts sales unlike in the auto industry just don’t see much volume. Most people buy a bike, ride it for a few years then they are pretty much done with it, if they even rode it at all. Most casual riders don’t ride enough miles to wear parts out, unlike cars which typically drive a lot. Absolutely no interest for the bike manufacturers to do much for parts commonality, backwards compatibility, etc.
Last edited by: J7: Aug 11, 20 19:14
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
It already has.
have they quit manufacturing replacement parts from the OG eTap?
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? Saw another thread before where someone bought a used DI2 bike off probikecloset and found that he was unable to find needed spare parts. I was going to go wireless shifting for fun, but I'm having real second thoughts about it after realizing that could possibly happen, since I don't upgrade my stuff regularly (2008 Cervelo p2c)


Yup.

Already seen it with Etap, and 1st gen Di2.

But then, it’s the same for mechanical. I’ve made the decision to “upgrade”, if I can, my road bike to 10 speed, if I can find a set of shifters. Scouring eBay for what I want, I can’t just walk into a shop and buy a set of 10s dura ace shifters, and going to 11 means upgrading pretty much everything.


Not really the same though. I am still 10 speed and can buy replacement parts very easily albeit not the dura ace latest and greatest.

Different from not being able to buy an obsolete blip box with no alternative.
Last edited by: lightheir: Aug 11, 20 19:30
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? Saw another thread before where someone bought a used DI2 bike off probikecloset and found that he was unable to find needed spare parts. I was going to go wireless shifting for fun, but I'm having real second thoughts about it after realizing that could possibly happen, since I don't upgrade my stuff regularly (2008 Cervelo p2c)


Yup.

Already seen it with Etap, and 1st gen Di2.

But then, it’s the same for mechanical. I’ve made the decision to “upgrade”, if I can, my road bike to 10 speed, if I can find a set of shifters. Scouring eBay for what I want, I can’t just walk into a shop and buy a set of 10s dura ace shifters, and going to 11 means upgrading pretty much everything.


Not really the same though. I am still 10 speed and can buy replacement parts very easily albeit not the dura ace latest and greatest.

Different from not being able to buy an obsolete blip box with no alternative.

Well, the only current Shimano 10 speed parts are not compatible with older 10 speed parts. Talking about shifters and derailleur, which is the apples to apples comparison. Brakes / cranks /chains / cassettes are no different from electronic to mechanical. Also, I bought dura ace in the first place because I want that shift quality and feel. If I break a lever, I don’t want to replace that with Sora level.

And I’ve been around long enough to remember when dura ace wasn’t compatible with Ultegra. (7-8 speed days of yore).

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Aug 11, 20 19:47
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I remain a cable-pulling mechanical Luddite across all 9 of my bikes, so still see e-groups largely as a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist (yeah, I get having options for multiple aero/base shifter placements, but not enough to warrant the switch).

Anyway, just couldn’t resist a shout-out to a fellow member of the OG 2008 P2C Mafia...!
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OneGoodLeg wrote:
I remain a cable-pulling mechanical Luddite across all 9 of my bikes, so still see e-groups largely as a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist (yeah, I get having options for multiple aero/base shifter placements, but not enough to warrant the switch).

Anyway, just couldn’t resist a shout-out to a fellow member of the OG 2008 P2C Mafia...!

Not even joking, if I see a p2c in my ag in the transition rack, I know someone fast is gonna hammer on me. It speaks to years of experience and dedication to tri!
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Who would have thought in only a few years rim brakes have almost gone obsolete so build your ideal bike at the time and worry about the rest later. Plenty of second had obsolete parts float around to keep you going should you need it.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I would treat electronic groupsets like a laptop or cell phone. When some part of the system brakes it can often be fixed but you have to think carefully about cost rather than replacing the lot. In my mind this means the value of electronic groupsets on the used market fall much faster than mechanical groupsets (again the phone analogy works here and a 3 year old iPhone is worth far less than a new iPhone). Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy used but it needs to be factored into the cost.

At some point not only will the hardware become obsolete but so will the firmware/software. The software side of things won't kill the system but it means you won't get the latest functions/apps.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Never buy 1st Gen anything. You are nothing more than a glorified beta tester and 2nd Gen is always right around the corner with all the fix's built in. Usually the lag time between 1st Gen and 2nd Gen is faster than the time from 2nd Gen to 3rd Gen for a reason.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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My biggest concern would be battery obsolescence as they will lose their ability to fully charge over time. Not as big a deal as with a phone where it's emptied and charged daily, but also something to be considered over a time frame of years. It's not like you can slap a random AAA battery in the things and move on. To be fair, i'm not familiar enough with the different electronic shifting systems to know if batteries are compatible between generations.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Who would have thought in only a few years rim brakes have almost gone obsolete so build your ideal bike at the time and worry about the rest later. Plenty of second had obsolete parts float around to keep you going should you need it.

I also think this is different. Rim brakes might not be sold anymore on new racing bikes, but they will always be around, as the market for $1000-range bikes is so much larger than the race bike market. I'm not worried one bit about rim brakes or 10spd parts disappearing completely, even if I can't have the latest and greatest version of it anymore. I am, however worried about having a single part in a $1200 electronic shift go bad or wear out, and have the entire thing bricked permanently.

Looks like I'm going to stick with mechanical for now, at least until there seems to be some semblance of universality to parts, which I'm not so hopeful for.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
Who would have thought in only a few years rim brakes have almost gone obsolete so build your ideal bike at the time and worry about the rest later. Plenty of second had obsolete parts float around to keep you going should you need it.

I also think this is different. Rim brakes might not be sold anymore on new racing bikes, but they will always be around, as the market for $1000-range bikes is so much larger than the race bike market. I'm not worried one bit about rim brakes or 10spd parts disappearing completely, even if I can't have the latest and greatest version of it anymore. I am, however worried about having a single part in a $1200 electronic shift go bad or wear out, and have the entire thing bricked permanently.

Looks like I'm going to stick with mechanical for now, at least until there seems to be some semblance of universality to parts, which I'm not so hopeful for.

I'm not sure about SRAM AXS and what the future holds, but at least for Shimano there is a lot of cross compatibility with e-tube and you can run (according to the compatibility charts) older 10 speed ultegra levers with 11 speed derailleurs, and vice versa, and different batteries, etc. I'm not particularly interested in etap axs (don't like the look of it anyway) but I wouldn't really hesitate to switch to di2, especially for a disc equipped roadie. The hydraulic mechanical brake/shift levers are fugly as hell. di2 are a lot more svelte.

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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? Saw another thread before where someone bought a used DI2 bike off probikecloset and found that he was unable to find needed spare parts. I was going to go wireless shifting for fun, but I'm having real second thoughts about it after realizing that could possibly happen, since I don't upgrade my stuff regularly (2008 Cervelo p2c)


Yup.

Already seen it with Etap, and 1st gen Di2.

But then, it’s the same for mechanical. I’ve made the decision to “upgrade”, if I can, my road bike to 10 speed, if I can find a set of shifters. Scouring eBay for what I want, I can’t just walk into a shop and buy a set of 10s dura ace shifters, and going to 11 means upgrading pretty much everything.


Not really the same though. I am still 10 speed and can buy replacement parts very easily albeit not the dura ace latest and greatest.

Different from not being able to buy an obsolete blip box with no alternative.


Well, the only current Shimano 10 speed parts are not compatible with older 10 speed parts. Talking about shifters and derailleur, which is the apples to apples comparison. Brakes / cranks /chains / cassettes are no different from electronic to mechanical. Also, I bought dura ace in the first place because I want that shift quality and feel. If I break a lever, I don’t want to replace that with Sora level.

And I’ve been around long enough to remember when dura ace wasn’t compatible with Ultegra. (7-8 speed days of yore).


Is the bolded above actually true?

I'm still using a 2008 era 10sp DA derailleurs and they play fine with new 10sp chains and cassettes.

My other bike got upgraded by myself about 2 years ago from Sora to whatever the most current 10sp Tiagra groupset was at that time, and I can interchange cassettes and chains with the 2008 DA 10sp stuff as if there was no difference.

At least with my generation of 10sp, it has been all compatible.
Last edited by: lightheir: Aug 12, 20 10:15
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
lightheir wrote:
Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? Saw another thread before where someone bought a used DI2 bike off probikecloset and found that he was unable to find needed spare parts. I was going to go wireless shifting for fun, but I'm having real second thoughts about it after realizing that could possibly happen, since I don't upgrade my stuff regularly (2008 Cervelo p2c)


Yup.

Already seen it with Etap, and 1st gen Di2.

But then, it’s the same for mechanical. I’ve made the decision to “upgrade”, if I can, my road bike to 10 speed, if I can find a set of shifters. Scouring eBay for what I want, I can’t just walk into a shop and buy a set of 10s dura ace shifters, and going to 11 means upgrading pretty much everything.


Not really the same though. I am still 10 speed and can buy replacement parts very easily albeit not the dura ace latest and greatest.

Different from not being able to buy an obsolete blip box with no alternative.


Well, the only current Shimano 10 speed parts are not compatible with older 10 speed parts. Talking about shifters and derailleur, which is the apples to apples comparison. Brakes / cranks /chains / cassettes are no different from electronic to mechanical. Also, I bought dura ace in the first place because I want that shift quality and feel. If I break a lever, I don’t want to replace that with Sora level.

And I’ve been around long enough to remember when dura ace wasn’t compatible with Ultegra. (7-8 speed days of yore).


Is the bolded above actually true?

I'm still using a 2008 era 10sp DA derailleurs and they play fine with new 10sp chains and cassettes.

My other bike got upgraded by myself about 2 years ago from Sora to whatever the most current 10sp Tiagra groupset was at that time, and I can interchange cassettes and chains with the 2008 DA 10sp stuff as if there was no difference.

At least with my generation of 10sp, it has been all compatible.

cassettes and chains are fine (I think I said that, but they don't change whether you are running electronic gears or not). Its the derailleurs that don't work with the shifters. The cable pull has changed.

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Aug 12, 20 12:35
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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ph yes, impossible to get wire looms for 10spd Di2 anymore
impossible to find Campy V1 batteries

I do know of a special place with Mavic Mektronic parts so dm me for those!

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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
fredly wrote:
It already has.
have they quit manufacturing replacement parts from the OG eTap?

I believe so. The problem with the original eTap setup is that SRAM made the switch to 12 spd (AXS) soon after it was introduced and the new components are not backwards compatible. You can still find most components for 11spd at LBS or an online marketplace; however, less common items like the SRAM Red eTap BlipBox are very difficult to find/replace.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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It's a concern when plunking down hard-earned $$ on something you know you plan to keep and use for a long time.
Here's how I see it: doesn't matter what tech you buy, it'll eventually be deprecated and then become obsolete and those cycles are closer together now than a generation ago. Clean cockpits devoid of wires and cables aren't going back to the previous days of cables all over the place. The clean cockpit is here to stay. Electronic shifting isn't going away. Wireless shifting won't fade, it'll grow to replace wired electronic shifting. The likely evolution of this technology is for wireless to replace hardwired electronic shifting, and for it to gradually continue moving down market, the same way mechanical tech has evolved and migrated. There is no guarantee of backward or forward compatibility, but unless there's a radical new way to hang a rear or front derailleur, old frames will accommodate new derailleurs. Sure, it will reach a point where you are forced to rip and replace the group set with newer model if you want to continue on the same frame. But that's not a terrible outcome is it?

If anything, wireless provides a more future proof set up because it eliminates all of the point to point cabling needed for mechanical. With a new build-out that is wireless from the start, you have no holes in the frame that need to filled or covered if you ever upgraded from mechanical to electronic.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [Troutd0g] [ In reply to ]
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Until wireless can be sold on bikes at the 1000 dollar price point, I think it will remain a high end item not in widespread use even if.all.the pros use it.

Mech shifting will.always be around partly because of this.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Rideon77 wrote:
Never buy 1st Gen anything.

I don't know. I'm on early eTap, and it's been drop-dead reliable over nearly 5 years, through some brutal conditions and crashes. Just absolutely zero problems.

And my early Wahoo Element Bolt has also been drop-dead reliable.
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Re: Wireless shifting - can it go 'obsolete' over time, such as finding spare parts? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Already seen it with Etap

What's been deprecated with Etap? I checked and all the major components I use (shifters, RD, FD) seem alive and well.
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