For anyone who is interested, I've received the results from my wind tunnel testing with John Cobb a the Texas A&M wind tunnel:

http://www.cyclingtechblog.com/...tunnel-test-results/

I've not spent much time going over them yet, but this forum is full of scientists so I thought I'd give everyone access to the raw data.

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one suggestion: tufos, inflated to max pressure.

Do you have data with just the arm width change? How far apart are your armrests in the new position (center to center)?

Also, what is your saddle to armrest drop in the new position? What about the old?

thanks for sharing.

At the bottom of the Excel file it lists the pad-to-pad as being 25cm. But it says it's from the outside to the outside, not center to center. The bottom line is that my forearms were touching -- it was really close.

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So if you look at the average g for 5-15 (I think the more real world average yaws), then the 3T position would actually be better.

Only if you know your average yaws are going to be below 11 or so does the new position seem to make sense.

Also, I'm amazed at the differences between the Nike suit and the others, that's huge.

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-Andrew Saar
It is better to do the right thing and be paid poorly,
than to do the wrong thing and be rewarded richly.

If you dig through the raw data in the PDF you'll find the test where I went from wide to narrow. I haven't had the time to look through that stuff yet.

Thanks.

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It's true that the original 3T was very very good. But the position was replicated with the Base Look and the drag went way up. Ideally I would use the new position with the 3T bars. But as is being discussed here, those bars may or may not be legal for Master next year. Any triathletes want to buy them? :-)

(that's a joke. I don't want to get banned for trying to sell things on this forum...)

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You are going to have no problems selling them here. I sold them very quickly some weeks ago.

What percentage of your riding time are you expecting to hold precisely that particular positon? It looks to me as if your vision is limited in that particular stance. Disregard my question if you will be allowed to have your own support car behind you. :)

Best wishes.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

Yes, But skinsuit differences are very individual. Fit matters way more than fabric. I know a guy that tested at A&M a day after Nico- his lycra short sleeve tested better than his techy long sleeve Hincapie. Why? The lycra skinsuit actually fit better.

Yes, But skinsuit differences are very individual. Fit matters way more than fabric. I know a guy that tested at A&M a day after Nico- his lycra short sleeve tested better than his techy long sleeve Hincapie. Why? The lycra skinsuit actually fit better.
_________________________________________________________________________________

This begs the question: What is 'better fit'?
I know that I have some ideas about what would be defined as better fit; but I am not a wind tunnel, hydroflume, or any other device that measures drag. Do you know if there are some general rules to this. I would make some general assumptions based on previous discussions and inferences that:
-You dont want wrinkles; especially on the back
-you want it to be as tight as possible without restricting movement
-you want the seams in low pressure areas (air-wise, as opposed to tissue or mental status)
-you want it to stay put, rather than creeping on the sleeves, shorts, or neck
-you want it to remain wrinkle free in multiple positions both dynamically (i.e. while pedaling) and 'staticly' (i.e. changing one arm position to another)

Are these generally in the right direction? If so, are there some things that I am missing which might be subtle, but offer big differences?

Thanks for the input.

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

Cool! Are you here in town?

SNOW!!! :) Trainer time.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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It should fit like SKIN- tight on arms, tight on chest with no gaps. Does not bag anywhere when in aero position. Most suits stay tight across the back pretty well. It is the torso and arms that are problematic.

>>Most suits stay tight across the back pretty well. It is the torso and arms that are problematic.

yup, wrinkles on the arms & shoulders are tough to get rid of. i wonder how much of an impact that has.

Nice post on your blog. Thanks for sharing.

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I have to admit that the difference in skinsuits amazes me! I always thought that 1 watt ~ 9 grams of drag, so the 70-150 gram difference is works out to bing 8-16 watts! I ballpark that at aroudn 25 seconds time saving, minimum! I went back and looked at the pictures you posted and from what I can tell your team suit is the loosest fitting. I can see wrinkles around the hip and behind the shoulder, yet it still performed well. Do you have any idea what else could be causing the difference?

That's cool. How do you get signed up?

Nico,
on completely different topic, was wondering how you solved the center-pull brake issue (ie cable hanger) for the P4 with its head tube shape.
I was using an old Dia-Compe cable hanger with Specialized transition front brake, but not happy with that hanger
and looking for other options.
Thanks for any help and happy holidays

I agree that the difference between skinsuits was shocking. And as I said in my blog post, John Cobb even doubted it, so we ran those tests again, and came up with similar results. You can download the actual results (pdf file on my blog post) and look at those runs if you're interested. Both the Nike and the Slipstream suits are very tight, but the Slipstream suit is tighter. The Slipstream suit is also long sleeved, and there were a few wrinkles in the sleeves.

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My center-pull brake doesn't require a cable hanger. Rather the housing goes all the way down to the front brake.

Cheers.

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looking at pic of the test in excel sheet
i think you would be faster in slightly shorter frame (top tube lenght) and not so steep seat tube angle

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http://www.ada.prorider.org
skype ceesbeers191053

Wow! I'm assuming you are "The Cees Beers". I'm honored to have you look at my testing, and to hear your advice. Notice my very Dutch name?

Are you saying that I'd be faster with a shorter frame and a shallower seat angle because you think I'd generate more power? Or because you think I'd be more aerodynamic?

Thanks.
Nico

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well no i am just cees
yes i seen the name nico
well about faster its actuly both i think, first you generate force if you more back and because you going more back you also going to lower your overall height.
(also if you measure in yaw you gone see you be faster)

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http://www.ada.prorider.org
skype ceesbeers191053

Did you test different aero bar extensions? Straight, ski, s-bend? I noticed the ugly duck bars look to curve up at the ends.

We tested different angles with the extensions -- flat, slightly up, and full "Mantis". For me there weren't really any big gains to be had with the raised arms, and it seems that the UCI is making it harder and harder to get your hands high. You can sort of fake it, and maybe get by the bike inspectors, if you angle your extension up a tad (they're supposed to be flat) and then have long hand grips on the end (those are allowed to go up) and then mount your shifters on top of those, and then hold on to your shifters. I saw a nice photo of Peter Stetina doing just that...

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