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Will Tubulars Arise Again?
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Hello All,


Zipp 808 Firecrest clincher Front + Rear = 1885 grams

Zipp 808 Firecrest tubular Front + Rear = 1700 grams




Why “Carogna”?
In several areas in Italy, “Carogna” (meaning: carrion, corpse in putrefaction) was the old name for tubular mastic, as mastic smells bad and is gooey. Carogna: a historical, funny name for a modern product that serves the same purpose of smelly old mastic. in a clean, fast and odorless way!!


EXCLUSIVE FEATURES:
  • extremely easy to use compared to mastic
  • very reliable adhesion, in any condition
  • once removed, Carogna leaves the rim ready for the next gluing, without additional cleaning
  • works for road and cyclocross
  • also available in very convenient Shop rolls
CHARACTERISTICS:Why we created it:
We started developing Carogna (pronounced “car-own-ya”) double sided adhesive tubular tape with a clear and ambitious goal: to bridge the gap between previously existing tapes and mastic in terms of gluing performance and heat-resistance, while retaining all the advantages of tapes.

In addition to this, we gave specific additional consideration to cyclocross (read the specific how-to guide here!) and mountain-bike tubulars, where specific features are needed from the gluing standpoint.


Universal performance:
Carogna has been tested and is designed to perform flawlessly on any rim material (aluminum, carbon), with any tubular (seamless, handmade, vulcanized sew-ups…), on and off-road.


Specific adhesive properties on rim and tubular:
the tape has two application-specific sides:


  • Semi-structural and removable on the rim-side: adhesion is guaranteed by industrial-grade acrylic glue, native to the base tape; this means that when removing the tubular (breaking its bond with the rim), the acrylic glue will stay on the tape, not on the rim. Acrylic has a good adhesion on both aluminum and carbon without any specific surface preparation.
  • Permanent on the tubular side: there’s a 1 mm-thick layer of a recently-developed permanent glue for underwater applications. This thick glue film will move and spread when the tubular is first inflated, ensuring optimized contact with any tubular base tape geometry. Humidity is obviously not an issue, and this glue adheres well to any kind of base tape material (nylon, cotton, poly-cotton) or external finishing (raw, brushed, or coated by neoprene).
Wide temperature range in use:
once adhesion is set, the use at low temperatures (down to -40°C) is not a problem. Thermal resistance of all materials used in the manufacture of Carogna was a high priority: Carogna will provide a perfect bonding at 150°C for extended periods (hours), exceeding the heat-resistance of even the best mastics and widely exceeding the heat-resistance of any other tubular tape.


Optimized adhesive surface:
adhesion is very strong and uniform across the whole circumference of the rim for all tubulars and it is also uniform across the tubular base tape. One short-coming of tubular tape to-date has been limited adhesion at the edges of the base tape or in the center of tubulars with a raised center seam. Carogna solves these problems.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Other than in cyclocross they will die a terrible death
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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No

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Its death become 100% sure as the age of Disc came.

Stay home, stay healthy.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Also track

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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I like tubulars. I guess I’m one of the few.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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It would be nice to know if this adhesive will increase Crr. My guess is it will, just because it isn't "one with you rim".

If it didn't it would be great because you can pick up really nice tubular wheels for next to nothing!
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [Peter Ghimme] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Peter Ghimme and All,

But what about a self sealing tubeless tubular?

Easily repaired without removing .... self sealing ..... lighter than a butterfly .... faster than a speeding bullet .... rolling like a bicycle tire on a wooden track ....

Can ride it when flat ....

No worries overheating with rim brakes ....

If rubber makers can make a hose or a ball they should be able to make a tubeless tubular.

Arise! Ye selfsealing tubeless tubulars of the future!

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Hello grumpier.mike and All,


It would seem that the new tape would not raise Crr ..... since gluing (if tightly glued) didn't ..... and the tape claims an even tighter bond.

I am curious as to how heavy the fastening tape is though ..... and of course how light the tubeless tubular would be ... and what the weight savings might be using lighter tubular rims.

And does the new tape really work?

The system has potential for development.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [Robert Preston] [ In reply to ]
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I've just switched to tubs. I had a few teething issues to start with e.g learning all about glue... I can see why people stick to clinchers but have discovered tape. Decent tape that actually works! Piece of cake to get the tyres on and off. Tubs feel faster to me and easier/quicker to change in a race plus no danger of repuncturing with a thorn that you've missed or a pinch flat. Performance wise, not sure there's much in it. I did do a race on very smooth roads with 140psi and they felt quicker than my clinchers, I'm sure there's data out there that will contradict me though :).

Will they rise again? Only if tape becomes more popular. People are scared off by the whole gluing process, it's an urban myth that tyres roll off tape as soon as you go round a corner. Perhaps with older types of tape, not the new stuff.
Last edited by: zedzded: Jan 4, 18 21:48
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Other than in cyclocross they will die a terrible death

What about track and road cycling. If the disc brakes eventually take off in the peloton maybe but until then they definitely won't but it's my understanding tubs would still be the preference. Not one team in the pro peloton runs them now except some tt stars on tt stages/races. Track I doubt will ever be lost.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Glue tape is SLOW.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I've never raced with carbon clincher rims and folding tyres (however I have them on my new Canyon disc-road bike), but my experinece of that vs tubular rims, is that I'm pretty sure I'd be way quicker changing a tubular under pressure compared to clinchers on race wheels.

29 years and counting
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Glue tape is SLOW.

Actually, the tape in question in the this thread is fast.
Pretty much identical to a good conventional glue.

A smart athlete can easily pick up a 2 generation old frame and good tubs for nicks and blow away all of the modern gear for a fraction of the price.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
jimatbeyond wrote:
Glue tape is SLOW.


Actually, the tape in question in the this thread is fast.
Pretty much identical to a good conventional glue.

Any data either way?

Also, my understanding of Mastik is that the better applied the lower the crr and the harder to remove; that for a tubular to roll well the tire is essentially impossible to remove. Is that the case with this tape as well? Or with the tape can we have it both ways?
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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I ride tubs and don't mind gluing. Quite like it, in fact. Therapeutic.

Quite intrigued by this tape, but, but but... two things.

First: cost. ÂŁ10 for a 2m roll. So ÂŁ20 to do a wheelset. ÂŁ20 buys a lot of glue.

Secondly: changing a tyre roadside. With glue, you carry a pre-glued tub. With Tufo, you carry a pre-taped tub and peel off the tape between the rim and the tape. But this stuff is applied to the rim, and the tape that you peel is between the tyre and the tape. So does that mean roadside you'd have to remove the tyre, remove the residue from the rim, apply a new roll of tape to the rim, mount the new tyre, then pull out the tape? Sounds sub-optimal...
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Long live tubies!!
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [GONE4ARIDE] [ In reply to ]
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I currently ride clinchers, but was a long time tubie user.

First....I don't get the point of this product, since tubular tape has been out and available for, what, 15 years?
The assumption was aways that it did not have as good a bond as glue, so not sure what is different now?

Second, clinchers are so easy to change, also how cheap they are for a top quality clincher, $30 US for a GP4000SII and $8 for a latex tube.

I also used to feel I'd get more flats on clinchers, but with the wider (23-25mm) tires and rims, and careful install, I haven't had a single flat in 3 years on them now.

As for tubies being lighter, we all know that really doesn't make any difference in performance.

Only thing I will still give tubies, is that they give a more plush ride than any clincher I've tried, but I'm not too hung up on that.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe wrote:
.....

If rubber makers can make a hose or a ball they should be able to make a tubeless tubular.

Arise! Ye selfsealing tubeless tubulars of the future! ......

Donnelly, formally Clement, makes tubeless tubular cyclocross tries. They are pretty damn awesome. Personally, my favorite CX tire on the market.

Have been running them for most of my wife's CX career - add in some Orange Seal and they have been pretty much been bomb proof.

Rode FMBs for a season due to sponsorship obligations. And guess which season resulted in a few flat tires? ;)

Alex Arman

Strava
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [doublea334] [ In reply to ]
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right after landlines, dvds, coal home furnaces
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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My only knock on carogna tape is cost. $25-30 for a wheelset is too much IMHO.

I don't fully understand the huge decline in tubulars' in amateur road racing. They cost more, but are lighter. You can ride a flat. You can have a slow leak and ride it for 30-40 miles. You can forget to put air in your tires before the race and ride on 40-50 psi. Harder to pinch flat.

I totally understand clinchers for training and long course triathlons.

For CX tubulars are king.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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jstonebarger wrote:
lyrrad wrote:
jimatbeyond wrote:
Glue tape is SLOW.


Actually, the tape in question in the this thread is fast.
Pretty much identical to a good conventional glue.


Any data either way?

Also, my understanding of Mastik is that the better applied the lower the crr and the harder to remove; that for a tubular to roll well the tire is essentially impossible to remove. Is that the case with this tape as well? Or with the tape can we have it both ways?


To their credit Effetto Mariposa has acknowledged that the Carogna tape adds a bit of Crr.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=5922754#p5922754


Also, not sure why this is being discussed now as though the product is new, it's been out for at least a couple years now.
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/tips/effetto-mariposa-s-carogna-tubular-gluing-tape-makes-regular-glue-look-bad
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [doublea334] [ In reply to ]
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Are talking about tubeless clinchers OR the type of tubular that does not have an inner tube? (Like Tufo, etc?) Thanks. DavidK
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [DavidK] [ In reply to ]
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DavidK wrote:
Are talking about tubeless clinchers OR the type of tubular that does not have an inner tube? (Like Tufo, etc?) Thanks. DavidK

tubulars.... as the type you glue or tape on.. usually has latex tube in the tire..atleast the good ones do.

I have Enve 2.2 tubs as my climbing wheels and I'm a big fan of them.
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Re: Will Tubulars Arise Again? [DavidK] [ In reply to ]
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DavidK wrote:
Are talking about tubeless clinchers OR the type of tubular that does not have an inner tube? (Like Tufo, etc?) Thanks. DavidK

the clements had no inner tube. I was just thinking about this the other day actually, and wishing that there was a fast tubular road tire built this way.
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