Flexible ankles is not what is hindering you. How much are you running? What does a week look like? What are your prs?

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Interesting to hear, I’d always heard flexible ankles were the devil as far as running goes? When I’m training regularly I’m looking at around 30mpw with one long run, one hill session and one intervals as well as regular steady runs. With that the best I can get down to is a 45 min 10k and a 22 min 5k (bike is somewhere around 4.3w/kg and I weigh 67kg.

Real swimmers can’t run. We just aren’t land animals. We are like penguins chasing gazelles.

---

Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/

That’s my fear! Unfortunately being a natural swimmer really doesn’t seem to lend itself to tri as much as one might think!

No flexibility is often good, especially dorsiflexion, though since you are a swimmer I’m guessing you mainly are plantarflexed.
What are your paces for the different runs? With that engine you definitely have a higher ceiling

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I tend to to most runs around 8.30/9min miles, tempo runs at 10k pace tend to go in once a week, intervals are usually max and the long run tends to go down to 9/9.15 pace. When I’m trained I find I can maintain pace well, in fact my 5k Pb was the second half of my ten k Pb which was actually the last 10k of a 10 miler. I find I need to wind it up as I go almost!

Here is a good photo showing Galen who has quite a bit of plantarflexision. It can help with correct landing and even propulsion in your stride.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Guy from my team with a swimming background has a PB of 27.08 on the 50m backstroke and went sub 1 minute on the 100m backstroke and recently ran a 36 low on a 10k. So some swimmers are able to run :)

Okay your easy run pace seems fine, tempos are a bit fast though, 20 min at 10k pace is not far from your 5k pr. Intervals should probably not be max, what is a typical workout for you? I would do a lot of interval work at around 4/km or slightly under, you really don’t need to train your top end speed with max reps, instead just do strides a few times per week and build to doing them every run.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

It just takes time. My background is swimming and I have very flexible ankles, 15 years ago finishing pace was 9:00/mi, now around 6:30/mi. Problem is most swimmers didn't spend a lot of time running when they were kids. You've got an engine and the cardiovascular physiology that comes with being a very strong youth swimmer. You just have to tap into that and keep running. An experienced runner could probably help you with mechanics or correct any obvious flaws. I had guys help me with stride length (shortened) and cadence (increased) that made a ton of difference, and resisting the urge to run everything "hard". I rarely time myself anymore - maybe a day of mile repeats or an occasional track workout - everything else I just pick a route - on/off road - and go run and make sure I can sing a few lyrics. Yeah that sounds goofy but then you know your heart rate isn't exploding. Good luck, Pb.

This sounds like something swimmers who can’t run made up; run more often and you will get faster.

So, basically, you don't know how to warm up properly.

I agree, it is a matter of time.

I recently read an interview of Talansky. Ex- pro biker, top level. Converting - slowly- to triathlon

He was explaining that he had the engine to run faster than what he currently do, but his coach slow him down, basically saying : the muscles are not there, not ready, if you try to use them according to your engine, you will destroy them. So, he perform reasonably well in swimming, can do top times in cycling, and finish with slow half or marathon. Because if he push, it will go to injury.

It does take years for the muscles and tendon to set-up. Especially if your engine is big.

Mine is smaller, it will be faster for the muscle to adapt :-)

Ex-swimmer here as well. For the first couple years I was pretty terrible at the run, but now it's actually stronger than my swim. On my last 70.3 I was 8th in my AG on the swim (28:00) but 4th on the run (1:33). What changed was pretty simple....I ran...A LOT.

You became a fast swimmer by swimming a ton. To be a fast runner you have to run a ton. It's as simple as that. It's the same for people that struggle with the swim and moan about how us ex-swimmers have it easy. That's just not true, we're fast because we swam a freakin million yards before they did a single structured swim workout. That's where the swim speed came from.

I did the BarryP plan last winter, got my running up to 50 MPW and held it there for a multiple months. That's what it took to finally see improvement on the run.

What are your paces for the different runs?


I think this is the main issue. I've seen some pretty pedestrian efforts during interval workouts

this.

November - February are amazing running months - just get out there and run! Since you have a swimming background, you can get away with light maintenance (or completely take off) swimming until February as you ramp up for May-Sept season.

After getting injured ~18 months ago I switched to the basic BarryP structure. If I compare this mornings run to one from pre-BarryP I'm ~80 seconds faster per mile without pushing.

Throwing in an extra swim this year I've certainly seen gains, but nothing like the run improvement.

It's the frequency that appears to make the biggest difference.

That seems very fast for the intervals - his 10k race pace is 4:30/km - under 4:00/km is a hell of a lot faster. I've recently run a 38:45 10k (3:52/km) and there's no way I can do intervals at 3:20/km, I struggle to hold 3:40 for one km alone. sub 4:00/km for the OP will feel like near max.

I think a mix of very hard near max 200-400m reps with lots of rest, plus regular 800-1000m intervals with 2-3mins rest at about 4:10 - 4:15/km would be a good way to go. This kind of approach has me down from 43:00 over a year or so (with tri training mixed in)

Thanks dudes, plenty to think about there and lots of encouraging stuff too. I wonder if I’ve been using it all as a bit of an excuse. Will have a look for the BarryP plan and get on it this winter. Looking to start building up from now (although I’m having my first kid in May so this may well all be a moot point anyway!!)

That said, I work for myself, from home and have the ability to put aside 30+ hours for something if needed so I’m hoping I’ll be able to train up whilst still performing the usual dad duties!!

I doubt his actual 10k pace is 4:30 considering he ran his pr during a 15k race which also was his 5k pr. More likely he is around 42-43 or 4:15/km. For a 4:15 runner I would say 5k pace is around 4, slightly over perhaps, and 3k pace would be at 4 or maybe slightly under. So I would say 6x800@4-4:10 or 8x400 @4 would be good workouts, and if he's doing longer intervals pace should be closer to 4:20 and tempos around 4:30. More important than pace though is just to run relaxed, even better to just run after effort.
The delta between paces will be different depending on how fast you are and how much slow/fast twitch you are, but to compare to yours my paces are like this
10k - 3:40
5k - 3:33
3k - 3:18
Now depending on the purpose of the workout my paces could vary between all of these or faster or slower, but op wanted to get faster, and in that case 3k-5k pace will be good for him.
Not sure why he should do near max 200s and quarters, does not seem so beneficial tbh. 800s and 1000s are good and honestly he doesn't even need to bother with anything shorter than 800 as long as he throws in some strides and maybe a fartlek. Speed is overrated, you dont need sub 60s 400 speed to run a decent 10k.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Congrats - having my first next week - had the best training season of my career this year...hope I built enough of a base to maintain for the next few months!

Well PB how bad do you want it? Run 50 miles a week for two years with ten or twelve 10k to half marathon races a year and lets talk. If you can weigh less than 165 lbs, no reason with your Vo2 max ( if you are under 30 years old} you could not run mid to low 35m 10 k or a sub 40 min 10k off the bike. Well within reach. Loose ankles are bullshit. so get over it. I had floppy ankles from swimming and did exactly what I just mentioned. My problem with Olympic Distance was with a 20 min swim, 1 hr 40 k bike, add transitions and a 40 min run still didn't get much lower than 2:00hr Olympic and the fast guys were 1:55 or under. I had the need for speed.

Your problem isn't your ankles. You're just not running enough. You write that you run 30 mpw when you are focused. What are you running right now? Focus on running this winter, up your mileage, get into a weekly winter 5k series. Run and run some more. If you don't see improvement by tri season, maybe it is your ankles.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Former swimmer here. I also struggled at first to improve my run, but after I actually added in some half legitimate distance aka more than 20 miles a week and dropping some weight 5'10" was 175, down to 160, I went from 8:15 pace in Olympics to around 7:35. About two weeks ago did a 5k for time and finished in 21:30. Just started doing the BarryP plan and gonna be doing it throughout the year, currently at 33 miles per week and I gotta say, I'm already enjoying running more. I can report back come Spring, but definitely seems like this is going to help my running fitness. Consistency + Volume + 6 days a week ya gotta get faster, right?