I checked it on the Computrainer program at a couple of different spots on the hill and it looks like 4.2-4.5%. I hope thats accurate enough.

Richard

If your looking at the computrainer grades... eeegads!... I rode Wildflower this weekend and if my memory is correct I believe there was at least one 25%+ grade. In fact, I beleive there are 2 or 3 short 25%+ grades during the last portion of the course.... either that, or I was delusional from the pain.

FWIW Joe Moya

While you were riding it, I was fretting over it. I can tell there are the two big hills, but what comes after Beach Hill? A slew of rolling hills?

Is Nasty Grade really as bad as people make it out to be? I am used to mountains, and climb one every month or so (Mt. Diablo in the Bay Area), but never in the aero bars or in a tri geometry.

Also, is this a course that favors a true tri geometry, or a road bike with some clip-ons?

JA

yeah WF is a really tough bike ride---just be prepared to ride hard and you'll make it. IMO it isnt just that the hills make it bad, its that the hills keep coming. Kind of like a good middleweight boxer. They might not have one knockout punch, but they go to the body all day long. Thats what the WF bike course does---it hits your body all day long. When you make the turn back into the park on the way back in, you'll have some belief that the worst is over cause it was fairly easy getting out of the park---well the reason it was easy was cause most of it was downhill, now you gotta go back up those hills. Good luck, see you there.

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Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Fretting over the hills is understandable (specially if you judge it by the CT model). In terms of hills to train on, you have a much greater advantage than I do (that's why I have the Computrainer). Where I live, (and this is absolutely not exaggeration) the only hills (and, I use that term very loosely) I have to train on are over passes. That's is it! If you want a better feel of where I must train, look at the Buffulo Springs Lake Triathlon course only leave out the hills. I can litterly bike 100 miles and in any direction and have a total elevation change of 200 fts. (over that whole 100 miles). What I have a lot of experience at is that I know how to ride with wind. I am use to the constant and never forgiving steady 10-15 mph head winds with gusts to 20+ mph. Personally, I would trade hills for wind any time of the day. With hills, you can see the end...with wind, it never gives up...there is never a coast.

I've never ridden WF, will be doing it for the first time this year. I'm working on a strategy (if you want to call it that). The strategy is simple, survive. From what I have experienced (via CT), this is a spin technique dominated course. The more efficient the spin, the more efficient the ride. Efficiency equals fresher legs. I have riden it only 3 times (without stopping that is) on my CT. What I found out is that high RPM's and Low HR is crucial to surviving the ride with legs good enough to run.

Maybe a few "real experienced" WF triathletes can give some pointers. But, based on my very limited experience, you need to think spin and low HR (a difficult combo to say the least). Based on that principle, I would place the regular road bike as having a slight advantage. But, (IMHO) the real advantage will come from volume training and less of an advantage will come from intensity training. The bike geometry will not make up for lack of volume training.

So far, that's my limited take on WF.

FWIW Joe Moya

Joe I've ridden WF 3 times in races and a few times in training. I'd say that youre partially correct on low Hr and high spin. My opinion was partly created by slowman himself, somewhere on ST. If you can average 300 watts of power on the WF course, you cant expend 550 watts on any one climb without paying for it later. You gotta keep it somewhere near your avg watt number---related to watts--if you wanna avg 150bpm on the bike dont get up to 178bpm on any one climb and expect it to not effect you. I wouldnt say low HR, but just not relatively high compared to your avg HR. And spinning is probably is always a good thing. Related to spinning, unless youre an awesome cyclist, you wont be able to spin at 39-23 up lynch hill. so gear accordingly.

Its a tough run, too. So you've always heard that you gotta race your own race, well here it might be even more crucial, cause if you push yourself on the bike to stay with X athlete, you might be walking the run. The run gets hard at like mile 2-3, and then its up.

I hope this helps, and if it does help, i hope your not in my agegroup.

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Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

Good points, thanks... So far, I've gathered that WF does take some planning to be successful in both finishing and finishing without excessive suffering. My level of training has been to gauge my wattage output and HR relative to a bike-run brick. By that I mean, I am working on the best power output to HR ratio (i.e., efficiency ratio) I can maintain throughout the bike and still manage a sub 9.5 min/mile 1/2 marathon run. I've only been able to accomplish 2 complete bike rides with times of about 4 hrs 15min and 4 hrs. 45min. Followed with a 5k run brick and maintained a 10.75 min/mile and a 9.75 min/mile (respectively). The biggest difference gained was my HR - it went from an average of 145 (for both bike and run) to a 134. That's a 7% drop in effort (albeit with even a bigger wattage drop - see below). ... that seems like a very valuable gain if I want to maintain a steady run pace (i.e., staying aerobic).

My intent is to find that bike pace that will get my 5k run portion of the brick up to a sub 8.5 min./mile will little perceived effort. I expect a 1/2 marathon will reduce the run portion to a sub. 10 min/mile pace (at least). And, with a little expansion of running volume, I should get my training brick up to full course bike ride with a 10k run brick at a sub 10.5 min./mile run. If I work on accomplishing that by the middle to beginning of April, I will feel much more confident than I do now.

With that as a goal, if I come close to a 10-11 min/pace for the entire 1/2 marathon run (i.e., a sub 2hr 30min run), I would be VERY happy. I realize a lot can change my strategy... like temperature. But, if I still make the to the race will my goals in tact...I'd be very happy finisher.

Btw, the run time drop from 10.75 m/mi. to 9.75 m/mi. mentioned above occurred from a Saturday to a Sunday. The reason for the big improvement was that I dropped my wattage output and HR by about 15%. It made a huge difference on the run. As I work on volume, I think I'll find my best pace/cadence to distance ratio before May. If not, heck I'll just "cowboy-up" to the occasion like many a triathlon I've miscalculated. Nothings going to ruin my day... I'd just kick back, jog/walk my carcuss in and try again another year (Better yet, do a better job at Buf. Spring Lake tri in late June).

As you can see, I'm NO threat regardless of my age group - the past half dead age group - 45-50. I predict by May I'll have enough volume training to confortably finish in about 7 hrs. and 15-30 mins. The key word is "confortably".

Thanks again,

Joe Moya

Final note, this isn't going to be an A race... heck, it's not even rated except on my fun scale... for that, it's going to be an A race based on how much I enjoy it not how fast I complete the course....Way to earlier into the season for me.

Biggest thing to remember about WF (assuming we're all talking about the Long Course) is that this will NOT be your half IM PR. Don't expect it to be and mentally you'll be better off. The hills start pretty quickly (first one is about mile 2 and is significant), then rollers with a few big rollers between mile 3 and mile 42. You'll also likely get a headwind for about 12 miles on either Interlake or more likely Jolan Road. Just watch the cadence so that you don't load up the legs too much before mile 42. Mile 42 is where the fun begins. If you loaded up the legs early, life gets grim here. If you rode smart, it's not a big deal. Lots of rollers on the way back to transistion until the last mile which is downhill. Then comes the run which is also hilly. If you didn't ride smart, this will be something between a slow run and a death march. If you did ride smart, it's just a hilly run. All in all this is a grat race and an awesome weekend!

WF is hilly, but not abusive...The middleweight boxer analogy is spot-on.

Ignore the 25% post...It's wrong. There is no Angliru at WF.

If you are hoping to break 5 hours, you'll need to be able to ride 2:30 since the run is fairly challenging as well (significant climbs at mile 3 and 10).

In addition, the challenge of WF (other than the early date) is that it doesn't afford you rhythm. While most triathletes are used to "zoning out" at a given HR, WF insists that you pay attention. There are hills on the bike. More importantly, the run has a single track feel for the first 4 miles which don't allow a rhythm. Then you get some respite until the downhill at mile 9 followed by the uphill at 10 and the steep downhill to the finish at mile 12.

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