With aero road bikes offered by Felt and Cervelo, why would you NOT want to pick this if you had your choice? I notice a lot of the guys riding in the Tour who have the choice are not riding them. Just curious what the downside side is?
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Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
the shape of the tubes may influence the way the bike rides, those tubes could be more expensive to produce, it might not be as visually appealing to some people
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
weight of frame...
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
http://www.momentbicycles.com (NOTE: This poster owns Moment Bicycles).
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
http://www.momentbicycles.com (NOTE: This poster owns Moment Bicycles).
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [JTIV]
[ In reply to ]
moreso, frame stiffness for a given weight.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
weight, handling, appearance, cabling issues
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
I'd have to agree that it comes down to cabling...most of the bikes used on the TDF have external cables for easy fixes on the fly. With internal cabling...if a break cable snaps, gear cable, etc. it's very easy to swap out external as all the cable lengths for each rider are probably pre cut etc; where as if you have the internal, running it through the frame on the French country side would be pretty time consuming and difficult to get back into the peleton. Just my thought.
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Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
UCI 5 cm rule?
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
expense totally out of proportion to benefit.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [CJS25]
[ In reply to ]
spare. Bike.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
lightning33 wrote:
With aero road bikes offered by Felt and Cervelo, why would you NOT want to pick this if you had your choice? I notice a lot of the guys riding in the Tour who have the choice are not riding them. Just curious what the downside side is?I think the Tarmac is a better bike than either of those.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
If your going strictly by the Tour, I'd say stiffnes or "feel". Tour riders are a picky bunch. More and more riders are going aero every year though.
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Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [TheGuyInDC]
[ In reply to ]
"expense totally out of proportion to benefit. "
exactly. as much as I want an aero road frame, it's been shown that I might expect 1-1.5% benefit in ideal situations (ie high yaw angle). At low yaw according to Tour at least a big brick of a cannondale does just as well. Given that I am a sprinter, the high yaw basically doesn't matter, at least not for $$$$. I can just wear a more aero helmet, clothing and make my sprinting position as cav-like as possible.
More importantly, if you get an aero road frame, the Kestrel Talon was thought by Tour to be better than the Cervelo and almost as good as the Felt. Again, $$$$. A set of decent wheels is still cheaper than most of these frames too.
exactly. as much as I want an aero road frame, it's been shown that I might expect 1-1.5% benefit in ideal situations (ie high yaw angle). At low yaw according to Tour at least a big brick of a cannondale does just as well. Given that I am a sprinter, the high yaw basically doesn't matter, at least not for $$$$. I can just wear a more aero helmet, clothing and make my sprinting position as cav-like as possible.
More importantly, if you get an aero road frame, the Kestrel Talon was thought by Tour to be better than the Cervelo and almost as good as the Felt. Again, $$$$. A set of decent wheels is still cheaper than most of these frames too.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
lightning33 wrote:
With aero road bikes offered by Felt and Cervelo, why would you NOT want to pick this if you had your choice? I notice a lot of the guys riding in the Tour who have the choice are not riding them. Just curious what the downside side is?Mostly ignorance and bull-headed-ness...
http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [CJS25]
[ In reply to ]
No, this is def not the reason. If a cable snaps they just switch bikes, and getting back to the peleton would therefore have nothing to do with the speed to re-cable a bike. Then, after the bike switch, the mechanics have plenty of time to do a repair (if they even want to do it while on the road, or they may just change around the seat height of a different spare in case of another failure, albeit on top of a car). They also def do not have precut cables for each rider. Or, to be maximally accurate, at least no pro mechanic I have ever seen or read about uses precut cables, that would be a logistical nightmare for teams. As many parts as can be multipurpose the better, plus, a cable cutter takes what, a second to do the deed?
The reason some choose to use aero and others choose not to use aero bikes is due to a variety of factors, but usually comes down to stiffness and ride. To quote Carlos Sastre on his choice to use the R3-SL, "the ligher weight [of a not aero frame], the slightly snappier acceleration and easier handling characteristics in the wind" were compelling reasons that also swayed the Schlek brothers into that choice on and off while they rode cervelo. Most pros that opt out of aero frames do so for similar reasons, from my understanding.
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Full disclosure: Zwift, former Zipp and SRAM Design Engineer
The reason some choose to use aero and others choose not to use aero bikes is due to a variety of factors, but usually comes down to stiffness and ride. To quote Carlos Sastre on his choice to use the R3-SL, "the ligher weight [of a not aero frame], the slightly snappier acceleration and easier handling characteristics in the wind" were compelling reasons that also swayed the Schlek brothers into that choice on and off while they rode cervelo. Most pros that opt out of aero frames do so for similar reasons, from my understanding.
-----------------------------
Full disclosure: Zwift, former Zipp and SRAM Design Engineer
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
With aero road bikes offered by Felt and Cervelo, why would you NOT want to pick this if you had your choice?
YMMV!
My thoughts here:
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com/...or-not-for-road.html
FYI - I ride a Cervelo R3 and I am fine with that. The reason that I did not make the break in a road race or a group ride, has little to do with the aerodynamics of my road bike's frame.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
YMMV!
My thoughts here:
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com/...or-not-for-road.html
FYI - I ride a Cervelo R3 and I am fine with that. The reason that I did not make the break in a road race or a group ride, has little to do with the aerodynamics of my road bike's frame.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
Why are all pro tour riders not just riding P4's with drop bars?
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [gcombs]
[ In reply to ]
"UCI 5 cm rule?"
What does that have to do with the question? The Cervelo Soloist, Felt AR and other aerodynamic-concious frame designs are perfectly legal road bikes and used at the highest levels of racing.
Did you misunderstand the question?
What does that have to do with the question? The Cervelo Soloist, Felt AR and other aerodynamic-concious frame designs are perfectly legal road bikes and used at the highest levels of racing.
Did you misunderstand the question?
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [TriBriGuy]
[ In reply to ]
Pozzato preferred the feel of the Ridley Damocles to the Noah. Said the Noah was too stiff/harsh for him.
I imagine that's the reason for most.
I imagine that's the reason for most.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [Flak]
[ In reply to ]
Flak wrote:
Pozzato preferred the feel of the Ridley Damocles to the Noah. Said the Noah was too stiff/harsh for him. I imagine that's the reason for most.
Agreed.
When we're talking about very long, hard racing (like in the TDF) the riders have to be ready for the 'crux' of the race where the significant moves are made. If the body isn't in perfect condition and a perfect state of readiness to execute or respond to those significant moves, the race is lost. If an aero advantage comes at a cost to rider comfort or even just 'feel' preference, it's not worth it to these guys. At the end of the day it's not nascar. It's an athletic event where the strongest or most cunning rider wins almost ALWAYS regardless of what equipment they're on.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [TriBriGuy]
[ In reply to ]
I misread the question. I thought the "?" was referring to TT versus Tri... hence 5cm rule.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [gbot]
[ In reply to ]
"Why are all pro tour riders not just riding P4's with drop bars?"
Because the P4 and other TT bikes are built specifically for the demands of timed racing. Most would be found woefully short in the headtube and slow handling when negotiating road furniture in a pack or when climbing categorized climbs. The demands of all-day pack riding differ enough from solo or synchronized team timed efforts that the machines required have developed to address those differences. Of course we have the continuing debate over the UCI's attempts to keep the two types of machine from diverging too much.
Because the P4 and other TT bikes are built specifically for the demands of timed racing. Most would be found woefully short in the headtube and slow handling when negotiating road furniture in a pack or when climbing categorized climbs. The demands of all-day pack riding differ enough from solo or synchronized team timed efforts that the machines required have developed to address those differences. Of course we have the continuing debate over the UCI's attempts to keep the two types of machine from diverging too much.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
Stiffness, ride quality, weight, and sometimes (when the team allows it) rider preference.
Re: Why would you NOT ride an aero road bike? [lightning33]
[ In reply to ]
Aesthetics.
Given a choice of high end road bikes, I wouldn't pick either of those two (S or AR series bikes).
I think their R or F series cousins are more aesthetically pleasing...they look like road bikes.
blood, sweat...and big gears
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
Given a choice of high end road bikes, I wouldn't pick either of those two (S or AR series bikes).
I think their R or F series cousins are more aesthetically pleasing...they look like road bikes.
blood, sweat...and big gears
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
Off the top of my head I can only think of 2 reasons that would give me pause.
1. An aero frame would cost at least 2x what my complete outlay for my Soloist built up with SRAM would cost.
2. I would probably have to ride carbon, which I'm tired of doing due to breaking them.
How much time would it save me riding in a pack over my Soloist? Or in a breakaway?
I'm not adverse to looking at them, but it needs to be significant before I bite off on it!
1. An aero frame would cost at least 2x what my complete outlay for my Soloist built up with SRAM would cost.
2. I would probably have to ride carbon, which I'm tired of doing due to breaking them.
How much time would it save me riding in a pack over my Soloist? Or in a breakaway?
I'm not adverse to looking at them, but it needs to be significant before I bite off on it!