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Re: So many Arseholes, so few bullets. [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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Well said boothrand. I agree, I think Tri36 is just looking to get a rise out of posers like me. I've found the reactions a lot of fun to read.

I am probably the ultimate poser. I own two tri bikes that combined could easily pay for a decent late model car. I rarely see a podium unless it's a super small local race, and even then rarely. However, I can afford nice bikes and they make me very happy.

My last race I finished 61 of 225 in the 35-39 at Alcatraz and 232 of 1258 overall. Does that mean I have to sell my bikes and get a Huffy????? If I do get the Huffy, better not let me pass you or you'll hear about it for sure!



All in good fun,

Dennis

P.S. I also got a nice set of golf clubs that collect dust ever since I bought a bike.
Last edited by: dennisr: Jul 1, 04 20:12
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Re: So many Arseholes, so few bullets. [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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Better said, than I. I was not putting people down, just asking about performace vs price of equipment.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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I was a lurker till now, but this has really got me going now...

I believe great bikes aren't a right, but rather a privilege for the special few who've put in the training to deserve 'em. If someone gave me Lance's bike to ride for the next tri, I wouldn't dare ride it...coz I ain't good enough for it.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [caleb] [ In reply to ]
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Aah, an interesting thought provoking question. I'll have a go.

I started doing triís in 1984. The first year was on a bike reconstructed from parts belonging to bikes from my three brothers, an amalgamated 40 lb Ross ten speed that still had about three pounds of sand in it from a year and a half at Newport Beach peninsula. But, I was hooked.

Next year, it was a Bianchi Nuova Racer. I still have that bike and I still love it too much to give it up. After four years I got talked into buying a new bike, a Cilo road frame with Campy (by a friend who was buying either a new Kestrel or a Trek every year). I road that bike off and on for almost 16 years and it never fitted me properly. I was not seriously doing triathlons in the 90ís due to graduate school work, so I just fiddled with the bike to make it work.

Last year, I returned to the sport, 30 pounds over race weight, 49 years old, and with the notion it was time to tackle a full IM. I did five races last year on the Cilo. I lost 20 pounds by October 2003 (10 months). I did a HIM in June in just under 6 hours, and a marathon in October in a poor 4:16. I also got signed into the 2004 IMC via the lottery.

I lost most of the last ten pounds this winter, and I decided it was also time to get a new bike, more specifically a tri-bike. My thoughts included: This will be as fast as I will ever be again in my life. If I donít get a really nice tri-bike now, when would I? Of course, it was also time to get a bike that actually fitted me. My purchasing research led me to the Cervelo P2k. My wife (of all of two years) talked me into the P3. I ordered it in February. I got it in March. I have transferred the Shimano SPD pedals from my old bike (which I still train on), I have gotten a Zipp 404 with a Conti tubie on the front, and I have a Renn 650c tubie disc on order (for some 12 weeks now). The full price of the bike will easily exceed $4500.

Am I a poser? I donít think so. I have trained my butt off this winter, not in some small part because the thought of being called a poser did cross my mind. I am also extremely competitive. I love to compete, even if I donít have a snowballís chance in Hell to win.

Years ago, I occasionally placed in smaller races. Last year, I was doing good to finish in the top half of my age group. This year, I have placed once, winning my age group and finishing 28th out of 650 in a local sprint race, and 6th in my age group at the Tupper Lake HIM, but 18 minutes faster than my PB from 1986. Yet, even if I was not doing as well position-wise, I still love the bike. It is extremely comfortable as compared to the Cilo, it is far more aero than any position I could obtain on the Cilo. It is also red ;-), but I digress. The new bike really does make me happy.

One last point, at Tupper Lake, I noticed well after I passed the turn around, two guys bringing up the rear, but still well separated from each other, still on the outward bound portion of the bike. Both of these guys had discs. My thoughts: 1) Why are they so far behind everyone with disc wheels? 2) I wonder if they are really slow swimmers and they are playing catchup on the bike and run? 3) I wonder if they flatted earlier? 4) Iím glad I have a decent swim. 5) Iím glad I havenít flatted. 6) Get your focus back on your race.

I didnít see any posers.




Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [Kingstontri] [ In reply to ]
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On the other hand, put Lance on a Wal-Mart bike and I bet he posts one of the fastest times of the bike leg.
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Re: So many Arseholes, so few bullets. [steveperx] [ In reply to ]
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Man, I don't know, but I see who he is talking about. You can see the "Post Tri Craze Fallout" debris on Ebay every day. The Tri craze maybe growing but there is another end of the meat grinder.

"I've quit doing triathlons, concentrating on mountain biking, here's my Cervelo Dual....for $1400 bucks, buy it now. Need cash."

That's them. The impulse people. This hits close to home. My brother in law is a physician down here. Makes gobs of money. Well, three to four years ago, he wanted to start doing triathlons. I have no idea why. He might have read a magazine or something. Who knows. He proceeds to go out and buy a brand new Litespeed Ultimate, retail, and they put aero bars on it. Its not really a tri bike. Not sure what he was thinking there but they fitted him out. He bought a wet suit, and all kinds of equipment.

It ended up being a $4,000 bike. His wife, my wife's sister, her jaws drop, and she proceeds then, almost to put him in a mental institution.

I think, right after that, that year, a few years ago, he did 2 sprints.

And, since then, that was it. It just sits there in his garage. Every time I go over there, I pump up the tires and ride the bike.

What the hell was that all about?
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Re: So many Arseholes, so few bullets. [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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Yes you were putting people down.



I wasn't going to say this, but due to your constant defensive posts, I hereby NOMINATE T36 AS SLOWTWITCH's ASSHOLE OF THE WEEK.



:-), hey, you got a right to express your thoughts... but still waiting for you to post your PRs, btw! I'm curious to learn how much faster I need to get before getting a Blade, zero pedals, or that cool neverreach hydration system.



Could some of this anger be due to jealously... perhaps you want that new Blade INSANELY but it's out of the price range, meanwhile Mr. Spam Back o' Packer, Esq. is riding your dream bike to a 4 hour OD finish? Dude, just stop criticizing (or "observing" and then communicating your "observations" to the world when you know plenty of so-called "posers" read this board) and get the most of your own equipment!!!! You will look much more Cool beating the posers on a 10 yr old Raleigh anyway.



It's a free board, don't take my nomination as a put-down. Just an observation . . . :-)
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [Kingstontri] [ In reply to ]
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If people didn't buy these bikes, there would be no sponsorship, and the sport would suffer. If only elites bought these bikes, there wouldn't be enough profit to put these bikes into production at all. The more money people spend on bike equipment, the better it is for the industry and the more money is available for technical innovation.

If you want to kill R&D, force everyone to ride they same crappy bike. ANY money spent on bike equipment is good for the sport. I hate when people denigrate those who either wear pro equipment or clothing. Its that type of attitude that will keep the sport small. We should be thankful that there are those who buy cycling products as they keep the sport alive.
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Re: So many Arseholes, so few bullets. [Glacier] [ In reply to ]
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As I stated before I have a decent bike( thats why Tom D drives a Lexus), and what was my exact quote that put people down?? My post are not defensive, just stating exactly what I said since by the 50th reply my original post has been changed and paraphrased many times from what the original said.



In Reply To:
Yes you were putting people down.



I wasn't going to say this, but due to your constant defensive posts, I hereby NOMINATE T36 AS SLOWTWITCH's ASSHOLE OF THE WEEK.



:-), hey, you got a right to express your thoughts... but still waiting for you to post your PRs, btw! I'm curious to learn how much faster I need to get before getting a Blade, zero pedals, or that cool neverreach hydration system.



Could some of this anger be due to jealously... perhaps you want that new Blade INSANELY but it's out of the price range, meanwhile Mr. Spam Back o' Packer, Esq. is riding your dream bike to a 4 hour OD finish? Dude, just stop criticizing (or "observing" and then communicating your "observations" to the world when you know plenty of so-called "posers" read this board) and get the most of your own equipment!!!! You will look much more Cool beating the posers on a 10 yr old Raleigh anyway.



It's a free board, don't take my nomination as a put-down. Just an observation . . . :-)
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Re: So many Arseholes, so few bullets. [boothrand] [ In reply to ]
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"However, his underlying criticism about "over spending" is true, a bit, it is. This thread is going to be a electronic pinyatta for the many thousands who probably spend too much money to satisfy "cravings" for some bike, running, or swimming equipment, not suitable or commissurate to their talents. They feel attacked by this. I am guilty of this. "I just need to get that." A pair of Kayano's. Or "that bike," or "new wheels." Or that pair of new $35 goggles.

However, having said that, I see no ability to progress in this sport without also moving forward gradually into better, more expensive equipment. The progressive advances in performance which someone makes from better training sessions can also be said to occur in that athletes understanding of what is or is not better equipment, which comes from research, and general discussion in the community: not vaingloriousness."

I thought the handwriting was on the wall in the late 80's, and was part of the reason I drifted away from the sport for a while. The specific message was defined by the wetsuit trend. Back then, only about 5 or 6 showed up in a race. Water temp guidelines were still being debated and defined. But it was clear that eventually, a majority of participants would be plunking down a couple hundred dollars for a suit, and that anyone with a an idea of being competitive would have to as well. Tri specific bike prices were already routinely exceeding $1500-2000. It was still close enogh to my pure running days to remember that $20 for a pair of Addidas Bostons, and a pair of running shorts and I was good to go. However, time proved that I just couldn't stay away.


Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [ironotter] [ In reply to ]
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I've seen WAY more posers down the beach in their Speedos and they probably can't even swim! ;-)
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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I really do hope that what you are referring to is the attitude, not the amount of money spent or finishing position. This sport is obsessive, you train to race, then you have to race again, then it has to be more challenging. Does anyone deserve to be there any more or less than the person next to them. Does a friend of mine that races on a $3500 bike deserve to ride it because he has only one leg, maybe whatever poser was in him went with the leg. If you have to sacrifice something else for that bike then so be it, everyone that has worked hard and put in their dues one way or another deserves what they have or want. Besides where is it said that you have to like everybody, I am really not a fan of people in general, but I realize we have to exist together, so make something of it.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [rock59] [ In reply to ]
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What kind of bike do you have on order?

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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Hey some bikes run $10k plus. So is $3500 cheap by comparison? I did one Oly (LA) 3:13 (19 min worth of trans & 1:30 on the bike). Used my old beater Specialized with toeclips (read 'heavy' ~30#). I was hooked. All of my swimming, running had a channel. Kids were out of the house, I had time to train. Saw a SR-TT new (2years on the LBS floor) priced, with Ultegra and 540's, for less than the frame. I definitely overspent. Next Oly, more training 2:46 (one mo later). Last month 2:31 with a new wet suit and a lot more training. I'm definitely a 'wannabe 53 yr old triathlete'. some of us are posers, but some of those dudes got hooked like I did, or have a lot of bucks or both.

PS. My sunglassses are $5 clip ons.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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I will fix this problem. [ In reply to ]
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If elected president I promise a $3000 bike grant to every triathlete and cyclist in America. It may only be spent on one bike and the full amount must be used. All change goes to customerjon.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [parkito] [ In reply to ]
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Great story, I like it. I especially like the following line:

"My purchasing research led me to the Cervelo P2k. My wife (of all of two years) talked me into the P3."

You is one lucky man!
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [WebSwim] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the way I look at it. New gear is partly (note emphasis on "partly") what keeps me interested in the sport and keeping myself in shape. When I have a bike I like (or other pieces of gear), I stay motivated, and I keep myself in much better shape than the vast majority of people my age who have otherwise sedentary jobs. My pinarello may deserve a better rider than myself. But it keeps me living well (and hopefully long) and that's all that really matters to me.

The other thing to add here is that luxury products are usually purchased for more than one reason. People buy bmws because they are fast, and/or because they ride incredibly well and have lots of comfort. The same is true with bikes. I may never push my bike to the max. But my steel/carbon mix is a damn smooth ride, and it makes riding a really pleasurable experience. And what's so wrong with that?
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [dhcrunner] [ In reply to ]
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the placebo effect is alive and well here. I just KNOW I could be be faster with 909's, Easton Tri bars, DA or Record parts. I would have to work so hard, just so that I didn't humiliate myself, I would really improve.

Ooo.Ooo...A whipperman Ti chain. I could........

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't read the entire thread, so someone else may have said this already.

You're looking at triathlon and seeing a microcosm of the American culture. We buy more than we need/can handle in every aspect of our lives. From 4,000 square foot homes, to $100,000 SUV's, to motorcycles that can go 180 MPH off the showroom floor, we spend endlessly on things that are as much a fashion statement as they are functional.

In many aspects of life, there is a very low need/want threshold, and we almost always justify buying at least somewhat beyond our needs.(Yes, I want the ice maker with the cube or crush feature, thank you!)

So what you see in triathlon is simply successful marketing of products to people who can afford them.

--

I do think that your feelings are normal in our culture, however. Typically, when we see people who are using/operating something we feel is beyond their abilities or level of deserving(in our instant mental judgment) we think, "Poseur", or "Loser" or whatever. That's a big part of what drives everybody to want to buy the bigger, better model of everything.

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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [caleb] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The original question was something to the effect of: "Why do people try to replace training with a bunch of high end gear?" On a little more constructive note, I'd like to hear what people think causes this tendency. Is it a consumer culture that tells us we can buy happiness? Is it lazyness?

Discuss.


Simple answer.

For buying expensive gear I need a lot of money. For training a lot I need a lot of time. My personal problem is I don't have as much time at hand as I would like to have to train as much as I'd like to ... so I ride a nice expensive bike, wear expensive oakleys and sadly am rather slow.

regards,

Frank

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
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Cha Ching wit da bling bling [ In reply to ]
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[reply]If elected president I promise a $3000 bike grant to every triathlete and cyclist in America. It may only be spent on one bike and the full amount must be used. All change goes to customerjon.[/reply]


rofl tibbs. Here in Australia they have just approved a $3000 payment non means tested for every child born after July 1. My wife is 36 weeks pregnant and made the cut. Perhaps I should get a new pushie or maybe that penis extension that I want.



This thread reminds me of a post by some dickh3ad on a board where he listed a dozen (or so ) names of guys who one of his coached athletes ran down in an IM and asked them to explain themselves. Too many small people make attepts at inflating their own egos at the expense of others and often make themselves the fool in the long run. I bet the thread starter thought he/she was going to get support on this topic but it has turned out the otherway.
Last edited by: plazbot: Jul 2, 04 4:23
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [Bavarian_Frank] [ In reply to ]
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There's an old saying that goes something like this: Time, skill, or money. If you have enough of two of these things, you can offset a lack of the third.

This is certainly not an absolute, but it seems to apply to many practical applications in the workplace and in life.

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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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I have an expensive bike (Softride) and usually place in the middle of my age group. In smaller competitions I might get lucky and win an award. But, I would just say to 'what's his face'... come train with me in the freezing cold winters of the north east. Or, run in the pouring down rain. Or, drag yourself through 20 hour training weeks. Then, tell me about my bike and how expensive it is. While I'm training for the Ironman my family gives me total support... Tell them about my bike!!!
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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There's another explanation that hasn't been covered either.

Lets say I've done a couple tris on a old shitty bike, but I really enjoyed them. Now I'm in the market for a new bike...what do I buy? (assuming I have loads of $)

I think I would always buy higher than my ability level dictates. The simple reason is that I plan on using this bike for the next 5 years or more. Therefore I buy according to what I perceive my ability will be in the future. I damned well plan on training and improving -- who doesn't. And voila, now I deserve to own an expensive bike because I'll grow into it. Maybe I'll never get as fast as I expected to, but I'm not going to buy a bike every year that's incrementally more expensive than the last because my times keep dropping. Does that make me a poser, or just someone with high goals and $.
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Re: Why so many Posers in triathlons??? [triathlete36] [ In reply to ]
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If us posers were not there who would you make fun of? We all can't be studs.
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