Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!)

Jul 18, 06 9:04

Post #1 of 189 (9354 views)

While watching and talking about the TDF, my wife has asked me more than once why there are no women.

Now, I suspect part of the answer is that it may be officially organized as a men-only event (isn't/wasn't there a women's version also?), but it does beg the question of performance differences between men and women, and since a certain other person's thread sortof broached the topic, I thought I'd ask the more serious question, since I'm genuinely curious?

Looking at the TDF, and the differences in world record or championship winning times between top men and women, what are the reasons why women don't outperform the men? Is it purely genetic? Are there differences in training, or exposure to sports? Will the gap eventually close as women are encouraged over time to be more athletic?

Are there women who could hang with the pro peloton given sufficient training? If not, why not?

Inquiring minds...

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Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:11

Post #2 of 189 (9309 views)

Like I posted in the other thread. I'd guess the difference between AVERAGE male performance and AVERAGE female performance is very small in teh handling department and slightly larger in the performance department.

However at the top where you're talking minutes over hundred of hours in a race that seemingly insignificant difference becomes HUGE. In short no way could top women hang with the top men, IMHO. It's that way in almost any top level sport with the one strange exception being EXTREMELY long endurance stuff, like 100mi running, where apparently women use fat a tad bit more effeciently and seem to do fairly well against men. I think TDF is more of a power/endurance issue and I think women would definately lose out.

~Matt

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:15

Post #3 of 189 (9289 views)

Wonderful question. I haven't any idea of course, but would like to know. Most women cyclist I know will drop me like a used GU wrapper. Looking at Triathlon splits isn't really relative, but the men seem to have an edge there. Being in the peloton would be different. I dare say there are women that could hang with the peloton.

Jim

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Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:17

Post #4 of 189 (9266 views)

There are women handing out flower bouquets and stuffed lions on the podiums.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

S. Pinkfontaine

Jul 18, 06 9:19

Post #5 of 189 (9245 views)

A couple of links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Boucle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women%27s_cycle_racing

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http://trainingoferic.blogspot.com/

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:19

Post #6 of 189 (9238 views)

because there are topless beaches open in the middle of the summer in Europe.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:21

Post #7 of 189 (9224 views)

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/...60629_Womens_TDF.asp

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Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:22

Post #8 of 189 (9209 views)

i'd say that if there were, and one day there well could be, the guys would go all out to try and make sure they finish outside the elimination time on every single stage.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:25

Post #9 of 189 (9178 views)

Same reason there are no Cat 3's in the Tour

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:28

Post #10 of 189 (9149 views)

There is a women version of the TDF : "la grand boucle feminine" which takes place with some difficulties every year.

Nick

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:32

Post #11 of 189 (9125 views)

Testosterone and growth hormone. Women have less of it .

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:36

Post #12 of 189 (9099 views)

Same reason there are no women in the NFL, NBA, MLB or the NHL. Not because professional sports are limited to men as a rule. It simply a fact that the best men are all better than the best women. In fact, a relatively mediocre male high school or college swimmer like I was is just a little slower than the fastest women swimmers in the world.

If a woman could compete, then at least one owner of one professional sports team would be smart enough to have her on the team even if she spent most of her time warming the bench because the publicity would put more people in the stands and would therefore make the owner more money.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [CTL] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:40

Post #13 of 189 (9071 views)

I have 3 sisters, a mom, and a girlfreind - ie. I have no axe to grind with the women, BUT......there is no WAY even teh most elite women riders could hand in the TDF...and that is not a knock on women, it is just the truth...

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [CTL] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:50

Post #14 of 189 (9007 views)

Women have played in the NHL (in goal).

There are women who could, no doubt, ride with the peloton, no problem. I'm betting that Jeannie Longo, in her prime, could have raced in the Tour. This was a woman who could occasionally win races against elite amateur men in Europe. The issue is that riders who just ride in the peloton are a waste of a spot on the team roster. A team needs riders who will either a) win or b) support another rider who can win. Support means dropping back to the team car and getting bottles, pacing the team leader back up to the peloton in the event of a mechanical, keeping the leader out of the wind, leading out the sprint, etc. The Tour is not a participation event.

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Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [CTL] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:54

Post #15 of 189 (8986 views)

It's not the instant seat filler you think it is...

http://www.manonrheaume.com/bio.htm

I'd say of all the major sports in the US, hockey goalie is the one where a woman is most likely to be the physical equal of a man. But for most of sport, the best men are better than the best women.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [one_lap] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 9:59

Post #16 of 189 (8945 views)

Pre-season games are exhibition games, not for real. Lots of career minor leaguers get to play in pre-season NHL games. I think that the NHL has a rule requiring teams to dress a certain number of their regular players because they might not dress any of them otherwise.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 10:03

Post #17 of 189 (8922 views)

It is pretty simple - women put out less absolute power and power/weight by a substantial margin. The fastest woman in the world couldn't compete with the weakest rider in the TdF.

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/.../powerprofile_v4.gif

ot

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 10:10

Post #18 of 189 (8883 views)

...because the race is hard enough without all the bitching and nagging.....

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [one_lap] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 10:10

Post #19 of 189 (8881 views)

If you consider auto racing a sport....

Seems to sell alot of tickets and be competitive.

~Matt

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [one_lap] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 10:20

Post #20 of 189 (8819 views)

Yeah...its exactly like asking why women don't play in the NFL. Duh.

ot

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [hugh] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 10:23

Post #21 of 189 (8802 views)

"because the race is hard enough without all the bitching and nagging..... "

obviously, you've never followed cycling to assume there is no bitching and nagging ;-)

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [TwinDad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 10:50

Post #22 of 189 (8732 views)

I've trained and raced with some of the top women in the world including some world champions. As a cat 3 cyclist I was able to outclimb some of the best women in the world.

No way in hell a woman could hang in on any of the TdF stages unless the peloton was taking a complete break for the day. There is such a huge gap in performance between the men and women that I don't see it ever coming close. Go watch one of the bigger races and the speed differences between the mens Pro/1/2 and womens field is like night and day. Most cat3 fields are faster than the top womens field.

The tour riders are like the best of the best. Even the worst tour riders would be a top pro domestically.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [OT in CA] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 11:00

Post #23 of 189 (8687 views)

In Reply To:

It is pretty simple - women put out less absolute power and power/weight by a substantial margin.

If by "substantial" you mean ~10% (in W/kg), then you're right.

In Reply To:

The fastest woman in the world couldn't compete with the weakest rider in the TdF.

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/.../powerprofile_v4.gif

Now here I think you're resorting to hyperbole, as I'm sure that there are plenty of elite women who could compete with the "water carriers" on TdF squads. IOW, the spread in ability across a team is likely greater than the gender gap.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 11:03

Post #24 of 189 (8673 views)

TT up alpe d'huez between Jeanson and Jimmy Casper...I certainly wouldn't bet on Casper.

Re: Why no women in the TDF? (seriously!) [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 06 11:04

Post #25 of 189 (8663 views)

I'm pretty sure that Jeannie Longo was able to win races against male elites in France. Not all the time, but occasionally. That's what I've been told anyway.

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