They don't have to be mutually exclusive Dave. But keep building that straw man.

Do you classify beer as food because that is really important after long workouts.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

How can you win an Olympic in 2:42 with a 1:27 bike segment? The run is pretty quick though. The 2:21 is impressive if that was a full Olympic.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

If you look at the Age Up results, I was first in the 59-63 for the sprint :) And I think the ones I beat did not do the race in the morning. Did you buddies who you say
beat me in the sprint race the standard a few hours earlier? If not, why not. Not tough enough?

Again, we are born with what we have. I will always suck on the bike. But since I do, does this allow me to have more energy for the run?

I was one of the few that did both. If I remember right, I was the only was who ran sub 7 for all the runs, which I was real proud of for the second race since I was dead.

So not sure what your point is? Yep, there are lots of better folks. But, I am now 11 years AA for Triathlon. How many of your friends are?
I qualified for 4 events in Penticton in August. How many of your friends have qualified for that many? I also qualified for Tri worlds but elected not to go.

So lets talk about their run times. Why do so few want to talk about run times? I just love running by those studly bikers during the run and have a better overall time.

But who cares. For me, I am just out there having fun for myself. Competing against others helps me get into the pain cave but after that, who cares. I know I am not that good and could care less about doing the ST approved training. Sure has not given most very good overall finishes.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

where did I say that?

How to lose weight, do not eat as much. Easy

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You clearly do not understand that some bike courses are not flat. Or the run. Or the heat.
They do not call the Auburn race the worlds toughest for nothing.

My 2:21 sucked. Bike is a tad short. All of our times were was slow because of the heavy wind we hade. I normally do that course in 2:12 to 2:15, which you can see on Athlinks.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I never drink or take drugs, so I would not know. I just know a lot of folks who drink beer have bellies.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You didn't say that.

This is a question for the people that think that one needs to be constantly eating and drinking- in order to avoid some kind of "recovery break down".

Sorry, but you replied to me I thought.

Yep, would love to hear the "facts" to their answer.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I think you actually have this correct. The thing that most folks reading this were really surprised at was that you would consider it OK in the context of your diet and training plan to do anything for 3 hours and not consider the energy and recovery ramifications.

Nobody's saying you're no good, nobody's saying your training is not effective, and nobody can dispute your very solid results.

However, if you want to be the best you can be, if you want your training to be the most effective it could be, and if you want those results to be even better, you'd do well to heed some of the advice in the thread (even if it was outweighed by insults).

That advice is: 3 hours of fasted training with no immediate glycogen replacement is compromising your training and your fitness, and lowering your ability to compete. You should replace at least a few of those burned calories almost immediately.

Is your performance still high enough to suit you? Maybe so. Are you super duper efficient at all 3 sports, leading to your compromised fitness still producing winning performances. Maybe so. But could you be better? Obviously.

I don't think making the ho hum, happens every time dogpile on h2ofun, easy as it may seem, is the right solution here. You guys aren't listening to what Dave is saying, and then he doubles down with his fist in the air.

-Eric

ps -- seriously, consider banishing "snowflake" from your vocabulary, unless it's the atmospheric phenomenon. You sound ridiculous :)

This is an excellent response. There is so much talk about "fueling" in this sport that I think it is easy for triathletes to justify eating too much and gain weight. I put on weight over the last 10 years with too much focus on fueling and recovery nutrition and not enough on total calorie management. I got it under control last year with MyFitnessPal. So overall, my calorie level is down but the timing of those calories is still very important. I certainly eat a lot more often than Dave does at 3x per day, but his point about eating less overall is spot on.

The way I look at it is if I eat after my workouts, and since total food for the day is what impacts weight, this would mean I have to eat less at my other meals, which currently I have no desire to eliminate my cookies and ice cream.

Now, for ME, if I found this impacted my performance, yep, I would change.

But for some folks to always think their way or opinion is the ONLY way, well, lots of things work for others but not me, or things that work for me do not work for others. Why do some always always have to fight about it? And this is why I call them all snowflakes. A snowflakes always has to jump in with negative comments that their way or opinion is the ONLY way to go. I never ever say that. When I get folks at races always asking for my thoughts on how to get better, since they see my results, I always say this is what I do, but it may not work for anyone else! They need to find what works for them. And the main thing is what works is something they can stick with 7 days a week, 12 months a year, for years. So if one cannot do this, let alone stay healthy, well, they are talking to the wrong person.

I do think snowflake is better than bully, but some on ST seem to be both. :)

I really could care less about being faster!! I was talking to the 2 time gold medal 70-74 AG at the last race. We both laughed about comments from folks about getting faster. He said at our age, our goal is to try and not slow down as much, let alone, stay healthy to just get to the starting line. I am just amazed how many fewer racers I now race against in the 60-64 AG. And how slow, especially in the run, most are.

Assuming I am healthy this weekend in Bend, it will be real interesting to see folks in my AG race results. Now since I plan to try and race all three, I can already see from this thread that some will cherry pick the results that want to compare me against. :) And since I want to be at race weight, I am back to full court press reducing the food intake to get the weight off before Sat and Sunday. Fatter does not make one faster on the run.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Yep, we are all different and just need to find what works for each of us. But some just like to be fat.

I do once in a while after exercise get real hungry and sneak a few cookies, but boy do I feel guilty. But as long as that scale each night keeps me in race weight, I do not worry about.

Now tonight, it is out to dinner at Sizzler with root beer floats and lots of junk food, which is why I have cut back food the last 2 days.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Why is it important to replace the calories so quick? The calories lost during exercise can easily be replaced even if you wait to eat. You still have plenty of everything you need to recover after a workout.

Great question, still waiting for the answer from the "experts" with facts. Which I guess they are saying the folks in the article have no idea what they are talking about. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

But I think there are a solid dozen people saying yes, it will impact your performance. If I understand what you're saying, you're saying you eat 3,500 or however many calories, 1000 breakfast, 1000 lunch, and 1500 dinner, the same no matter what. And so if your 3-hours of training burned 2200 calories, and your base rate is 2200, you ran a deficit of 900 that day which is good for overall weight and therefore performance.

What people are saying is, instead of this, if you did 800 breakfast, 600 post ride, 1000 lunch, and 1500 dinner, for a total deficit of 500 for the day, you'd still have a solid fat burn, but you would perform better on your next morning's fasted workout.

Two things jump out from your replies: first, it sounds you admit that this is so, because you sometimes sneak some cookies after a long session. Second, it honestly sounds like you have an eating disorder if recovery/replenishment calories cause you guilt.

I don't think you're being honest when you say you couldn't care less about being faster. You clearly do care, very passionately, about your performance, which is why you talk about it all the time.

Anyway, what you are doing is working fairly well in any case, so whatever, keep on truckin' :-)

-Eric

Well, as I understand it, and in my experience, for performance, replace 'em quick. For weight loss, wait as long as you want / can. There's a window of maximal carbs -> glycogen replenishment that's around 20 minutes after a session. I find as long as I respect that, I can stack up a lot of sessions one after the other and my performance doesn't degrade. If I don't, I get feeling flat, hungry, and lethargic pretty quickly. I'm sure there's some smarter than me folks who could speak to the science.

-Eric

We can agree to disagree.

Until someone comes up for facts, rather than their opinions, ....

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Great that works for you, and others.

But why when I have something that works for me folks have to say I am wrong?

I train 7 days a week, about 20 hours a week. I race a lot, and my results are okay. So way do some just want to say what I do, which works for me, is impossible?
And why do some say, that if I did it their way, I would be better. I always smile when these folks never post their race results, rankings, etc? And to get the results I do at 60, well, most of these folks will never be racing at 60, let alone with good results :)

Again, I just posted an article that these experts came up with something they did not expect. Bash them if you think you are the expert and their results are wrong.
Just happens I have been using this as part of how I can eat the quantity of food I do, which at meals blows folks minds, and still keep the weight off.
Again, not saying this process should be used by anyone else.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Nobody said you're "wrong". And it'd be silly to say it was "impossible" because it obviously isn't -- you keep doing it :)

But simple math says, if you eat X calories at certain intervals during the day, and if you shifted those intervals to be strategic, you'd perform better at your workouts. I get the eating a staggering quantity of food thing, and I get that you closely manage your weight.

But you DO say your process should be used by people, because you keep bringing it up. And you DO keep making comparisons between yourself and other athletes your age, both self-deprecating ones (e.g. there are lots of runners my age who are faster!), and comparative ones (e.g. most of these folks will never be racing at 60, let alone with good results <smiley face>). And because what you are doing is non-conventional, and folks keep calling you on it, and you respond poorly, there gets to be this dogpile thing.

It's cool, obviously you are gonna do whatever you want. But you'd be faster, and your workouts higher quality, if you more carefully managed when you ate your calories during the day.

-Eric

Are you talking about stacking up multiple hard workouts in a day? As I understand it the "window" makes no difference if you have a day or so to recover -- given a day your body will replenish blood glycogen just fine even without 200 calories within 20 minutes.

There are studies that dispute this, just FYI.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC4242477/


In conclusion, our findings indicate that body composition changes associated with aerobic exercise in conjunction with a hypocaloric diet are similar regardless whether or not an individual is fasted prior to training. Hence, those seeking to lose body fat conceivably can choose to train either before or after eating based on preference

Dont get me wrong, I exercise fasted as well -- but I just want a lower overall calorie intake.

I've tried both, actually, although multiples in a day make me really REALLY careful about feeding and hydration -- but even if I'm doing one session a day, after a few days of being sloppy about initial recovery, I seem to dig a hole for myself, and pretty soon I don't even feel like moving. But if I'm careful about those 20 minutes, even if it's 150-200 calories, I am peppy all the time. Given that this tracks with the "conventional wisdom", I feel safe in assuming I am nowhere near alone in this experience.

If I am doing easy workouts once a day, I can be a lot more laissez faire about it, so I think you're right that over a day it's no biggie. (But as in the other posts, a lot of the debate was about a 3-hour session, which I'd never do without eating immediately after, even if I wanted to lose a ton of weight).

-E

Maybe not full on scientific, but I'll say this is stupid. My evidence behind this is the fact that I put myself into a four year hole of severe overtraining syndrome. The fact that I was training long hours and not eating enough just broke me. Its only now four years later that I feel "normal" again. Now I'm sure you won't believe this, so to each their own, but I know that there is no way in hell I would not eat something right after extended intense exercise.

Exactly what I'm saying. Either it's extended OR intense, not both, or it's math that it's going to wear you down. And to get the best training effect, from time to time, you do need to do both.

-E