My perception is that flip turns seem unrepresentative of open water swimming and the time invested in learning to do flip turns is better spent, well, swimming. I don't care about my absolute pool times, only (real) relative improvement.

If you can convince me that doing flip turns will make me a faster open-water swimmer, I'm all ears..

I would love too (and it is on my todo list) but I have enough problems simply swimming that I am concentrating on getting better swimming first and then picking that up.. The good thing is that in the pool I swim at I have never had to share a lane so it really does not effect anyone else but me...


Joel

Been doing tris for 25 years, never bothered. Flip turns might make me a better swimmer but I'm a land lubber and intend to stay that way. And I've done Kona so I don't care, being a better swimmer would have made no difference to achieving my goals.

I do flip turns because that's what real swimmers do.

Unless I stuff the timing up and head butt the wall. Or miss completely and kick off in water.

Same reason I'm learning to do fly, backstroke and better breaststroke.

Will it make me a better triathlete? Who cares....

Quick flip turns are awesome to watch. My open turns are still faster than slow flip turns.

Because:

1. Swimming is twice the fun with flip turns.
2. They teach proper timing, exhalation, body awareness/feel for the water/streamline
3. You are faster flipturning. It is easier to work on a good streamline also
4. You will push a lot harder on tough sets if you can flip turn. Dont argue. You will.
5. Since you need to turn anyway why do in inefficient and badly and try to convince anyone that you want to "spend the time practicing swimming". Here's a small heads up: never practice swimming when you need to turn, you will hurt yourself. Practice turns when you turn.

All in all you WILL become a better swimmer if you flip turn. There is no debate about this, only lazy people who want training to be easy trying to justify their choice not to tumble turn.


I used to be anti-tumble turn, then I realized that there was no way I could move up to the fastest lane if I couldnt tumble turn. So I learned it. Took 2-3 weeks (10 sessions maybe). Do I regret it? NOT FOR A SECOND!

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

You make a great case...but I frankly don't know how to do it...someone needs to post step by step instructions!

There are two reasons not to do flip turns if you are training for an event which requires swimming as quickly as possible:

1) You have a range of motion issue (back, neck, etc) which prevents you from physically be able to do one.

2) You can't do one comfortably.

I was a member of the 2nd group. It's not that I couldn't do one, I could go through the motions and do a relatively fast one, but they would be very taxing on my breathing and for anything more than a 100 (3 turns) I'd be so winded I'd have to slow down. There's not doubt that the reasons I was not able to do flip turns without gassing myself were preventing me from being a faster swimmer.

For the people in the "No turns in open water" camp...c'mon. You don't get a "mini-rest and a breath" every 25 yds in open water either. Just look at it empirically, ask the top 50 people out of the water if they do flip turns when training. Then ask the last 50 people.

So, take it from this rockfish, if you want to improve your swimming, take 2 weeks and flip every turn regardless of how much slower you swim. Once you get it down, if you want to go back to doing open turns, go ahead (you won't). In the long term, you'll be a much faster swimmer.

Plus they don't have to be perfect...mine suck but they allow me to push harder in interval sets as it doesn't seem I'm getting a break like I was when I did open turns. I'm not a swimmer at all and thought they'd be hard but for my just simple flip turn it was actually really easy.

Just to annoy you.

Every time I see a thread like this I make it a point to not even try to learn them for another season.

You do what you need to do and leave me to do my own thing as well.

Practice a few flips in the middle of the pool and then do swim slowly up to the wall and do them. There are videos at youtube but here are a few steps.

1. Swim up to the wall. You dont need too look at the wall since there in a T on the bottom.
2. When there is about one stroke left to the wall, dont recover the stroking arm. Finish the stroke with the other arm, pulling you close enough to the wall and keeping both hands by your thighs.
3. Curl yourself into a ball, starting with your head. A single, weak double leg kick can assist this action.
4. Your legs flip over. Your forward (well now its backwards...) motion will put your legs firmly on the wall. You will be upside down. Exhale.
5. Streamline your arms tightly over your head, push from the wall, spin to your stomach and do 1-2 double leg kicks while surfacing.
6. Start surface swimming as usual. You might be out of breath from being submersed about 3 seconds. It is common but silly. Dont tense up, take a breath.

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Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede

I made it a goal this winter to be able to do flip turns. I got good at them for about a week, then my back started to get tight from increasing run mileage. Once my back started to tighten up, I could no longer physically do flip turns so I stopped doing them for about a month. When I started doing them again, I could no longer do a perfect somersault and ended up crooked every time. Now it's a mental thing and I think about flipping crooked before I even flip. The struggle iz real.

Haha do you ride your bike in the middle of the road too?

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It's easy to make excuses, but excuses don't make champions.

When I race I don't get short breaks on the bike from waiting for stoplights and stop signs so I'm going to train like I race and blow through all of them /pink

jaretj

I do not use them. The push off allows me to make up distance that is better spent swimming to improve my endurance in open water. That way, if I plan a training swim of 2000 meters, I actually swim those 2000 meters....Just my 2 cents.

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Born 1973 - Died 2??? Life is all about the dash...

i've tried several times to learn flip turns. i get super nauseous after a few attempts so i've decided it's not worth it. (anyone got any tips here?)

It's not hard to learn. You just need time and patience. If you don't have someone to show you, you can find some good videos on Youtube. But don't expect too much. It will help you circle swim better with others in a pool but won't do damn thing for your open-water swim times, no matter what people tell you.

"The push off allows me to make up distance that is better spent swimming to improve my endurance in open water. That way, if I plan a training swim of 2000 meters, I actually swim those 2000 meters"

Wait...you don't push off the wall at all? So you have to start from a complete stop after each turn?

I've never understood the flippant attitude of "real" swimmers about this. Do you go around criticizing running and cycling techniques as well?

Anyway, I'm trying to learn how to do them so there is one less person to piss off the real swimmers out there.

Eta: and what does the type of turn have to do with collisions? Makes no sense.

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Loud pawls save lives

I have an old football injury in my right knee. Flip turns seems to be one of the few activities that immediately flares it up. + I actually think open turns make me a faster open water swimmer . . . it certainly doesn't make me slower.

Collisions and circle swimming with open turns don't seem to be causative.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

x2 If I work on it during my workouts, it will certainly negatively impact my fitness progression give my current flippin' ability. I keep telling myself I will dedicate separate time specifically to just flip turns, just like I keep telling myself the lawn needs to get mowed.

If I could do them well, I certainly would. I bet most people would. I have a pool where I get my own lane 99.9% of the time (seriously), nobody in my lane is impacted.

Is youtube down today?

Once you get it down, flip turning is as easy as breathing. Sure, there's a learning curve. Just like anything, if you want to learn it, you will learn it. If you don't want to, you'll find an excuse.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Nope, I tend to follow the laws about riding on the roads.

It must be difficult to live life as if those two were even remotely parallel.

Many accomplished swim coaches and athletes have taken back those very words after an hour with me!!! I can turn a somersault mid lane and just keep swimming forward without missing a beat, get near the wall and all hell breaks loose.