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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from folks who own a high-end road "race" bike but do not race competitively. Why do you own a "race" bike as opposed to something more "endurance" oriented which presumably is better suited to what you're actually doing on the bike (i.e., long rides, group rides, the occasional fondo, or days when you just want a break from your TT rig).


I typically ride 5 or 6 days a week. I have 2 TT bikes, 2 road race bikes and I just bought a new Litespeed titanium all-road bike. I don't race cycling competitively other than the occasional gran fondo, but I can go all day on a race bike, so "endurance" bikes have no particular attraction. I bought the Litespeed simply so I can participate in some long distance gravel rides on dirt roads, not because of the slack geometry. My road bikes are an Argon 18 Gallium Pro and a BMC SL-02. I've bought all my bikes brand new except for the BMC SL-02 which I got from a female semi-pro who changed sponsors after one season (i.e., a great deal).

I would ask you why you think an "endurance" bike is better suited for a long ride? Is the geometry faster? Are endurance bikes lighter? Do they handle better than my top end road bikes? Cheaper yes, but that's it.

I train a lot, I train hard. And I ride hard even with nothing on the line. So yeah, give me the race bike please!
Last edited by: HuffNPuff: Sep 14, 20 11:59
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Here is a simple illustration of how a typical top-tier brand's cost build-up might happen. Each of these options has a value equation unique to the owner. One thing not shown here is the total custom path, but at the end of the day, I don't think that changes the overall price build-up much. It is a pure style and cosmetics decision. I have a niche bike, but I was heading down the mass market path until I stumbled upon what I have. It was a pure cosmetic call.


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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from folks who own a high-end road "race" bike but do not race competitively. Why do you own a "race" bike as opposed to something more "endurance" oriented which presumably is better suited to what you're actually doing on the bike (i.e., long rides, group rides, the occasional fondo, or days when you just want a break from your TT rig).

I ask because I find myself wanting a S Works Tarmac TL7, but then I ask myself, what for? I have two beautiful custom bikes but both are more "endurance" oriented: a custom Ti Enigma and a Stelbel Rodano Disc (with clearance for 700x38) both Super Record level builds. Even if I were to enter a legit road race or crit, I'd probably just ride my basic Bowman Palace:R (Chorus, Zondas) so as not to look like a Fred when I get dropped.

Who are the people buying all the Tarmac TL7s such that they're on a massive back order? And why are they buying them? What am I missing here.....

define "do not race competitively". Are we talking no mass start racing, or no racing of any kind?

I have a Felt AR2. With all the bells and whistles, it's probably $5,500, with Ultegra Di2, Zipp handlebar, and Bontrager Aeolus XXX 6 wheelset. I don't do mass start racing anymore, but I would certainly do EMX ĂŤTTs on this bike. However, I haven't raced it at all, despite wanting to.

Injury set me back for a good two seasons, then I moved, and there's no EMX ITTs around where I currently live. However, if the promoter allows, I would enter a second race and race on both my TT bike and the AR2. Not sure if that counts as racing.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:

define "do not race competitively". Are we talking no mass start racing, or no racing of any kind?


What other kind of racing is there?

No, I don't count "KOM chasing" as racing, nor do I think half of the people I hear using that word actually have any significant KOMs, judging by the KOMs in my neck of the woods which must be held by either Pros who were visiting or ebikes.

I suppose racing your mates from one intersection to the next would count, but I wouldn't know what that's like. I don't have any friends who ride bikes (nor any time or interest in making new ones).
Last edited by: wintershade: Sep 14, 20 12:31
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
You raise a good point. I think there are actually two questions I'm asking.

1) Why buy a race geometry bike if you don't race? It seems like the answer is that for some, the race geometry actually fits better a more upright "endurance" geometry, while having the benefit of faster/sharper handling which can be fun.

2) Why buy a top-spec, expensive (which I'll arbitrarily define as $10K+) mass produced bike, when you could get a custom built one for a similar price? It seems like the answer here is some combination of wanting to ride what the pros ride and lack of originality/laziness (no offense intended).

For #1 I answered above, for me its about fit.

For #2 Ive never spent 10K+. I didn't need to. I got my BMC frameset for 3K which is 1K off of list price. I built it up with SRAM red, probably ended up spending $5-6K total. I love the way it rides so it is worth the money to me. At the time buying a custom bike when I had less experience probably wouldn't have been the best choice for me at the time. I've spent enough time and ridden enough miles on the bike since I built it around 2012 I feel I definitely got my moneys worth. I still put more miles on this bike per month than any other bike I own except the tri bike during tri season.

More recently I have considered a few custom frames when I was shopping for my gravel/CX bike and my latest road bike. For my gravel bike I went with an Ibis Hakka MX because it was a better value than the custom options I looked at. I no longer have the bike budget I did a few years ago before I bought a house. For my latest road bike I ended up getting a Titanium Mosiac. Its an RT2 with one of their stock geometries so I still get the same build quality as the custom bikes but at a lower price point. I also got an unbuilt showroom display model making it cheaper than many of the other frame sets I was considering. I already had most of the parts from my old CX bike to build it up so It ended up a being a fairly low cost build for me.

If I was forced to spending 10K+ today I probably would go custom. But personally I find it hard to justify that cost. There are plenty of lower cost bikes mass produced and boutique that I would probably buy instead. I also don't feel you have to spend 10K for a custom bike. I do have friends that build custom steel bikes. If i was going custom I probably would get it from them and the build wouldn't be 10K unless its a crazy build with $2K THM carbon crank arms and other expensive parts I probably wouldn't choose in the first place.

If someone has the money they can spend it however they like. If a $10K mass produced model motivates them to ride more who am I to tell them they made a bad choice. Not everyone puts a high value on uniquness or appreciates the quality craftsmanship you might get from a custom builder.

At the end of the day if we are all getting outside and having a good time riding our bikes who cares if its on a $50 bike off craigslist or a super expensive custom build.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
I would ask you why you think an "endurance" bike is better suited for a long ride? Is the geometry faster? Are endurance bikes lighter? Do they handle better than my top end road bikes? Cheaper yes, but that's it.
I train a lot, I train hard. And I ride hard even with nothing on the line. So yeah, give me the race bike please!

HA! Touche.

I guess for me, it comes down to my stack and reach coordinates primarily. I need more stack than most "race" bikes will give me. I'd need 2.5cm spacers on a Venge (or would need to adapt to a lower road position). But I am of the mindset that a more "forgiving" tubeset would be more comfortable over long miles. For example, my Ti bike is 3AL 2.5V vs the stiffer/lighter 6AL V4. My "winter" / cross bike is not XCr Columbus steel. Both were cheaper to spec that way I might add, so the builders were financially incentivized to give me the opposite recommendation.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Not to bury the lead here, but part of the purpose of this thread is I'm looking for a reason / justification to wife why I "need" an S Works Tarmac SL7 despite having multiple "dream" bikes already. Sorry for not making that more clear.

I mean, it just looks so damn good in that Black/Red fade colorway! You guys are giving me nothing!

Last edited by: wintershade: Sep 14, 20 12:56
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
You raise a good point. I think there are actually two questions I'm asking.

1) Why buy a race geometry bike if you don't race? It seems like the answer is that for some, the race geometry actually fits better a more upright "endurance" geometry, while having the benefit of faster/sharper handling which can be fun.

2) Why buy a top-spec, expensive (which I'll arbitrarily define as $10K+) mass produced bike, when you could get a custom built one for a similar price? It seems like the answer here is some combination of wanting to ride what the pros ride and lack of originality/laziness (no offense intended).


Some if it is individualized. "Race" geometry fits me better. At 6'4" I personally hate the stack, longer head tubes of many "endurance bikes". I am very comfortable on my CAAD12, even for longer rides. Bleeding into point 2, I surely do covet....but, still too practical at this point. I won't lie that part of my intoxication with the Tarmac is based on Bora/DQS.

Not really racing anyone but myself. But still enjoy maximizing. Short course triathlon, MOP for life, but do care if I beat my last bike split. Like to feel like I can keep up when ride with local group. And then while not chasing KOM, I do like to keep track of all my other peers on Strava, and then see where my rides land in comparison. Nobody in the world cares about this but me. But, is part of my enjoyment.
Last edited by: WannaB: Sep 14, 20 13:01
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
echappist wrote:

define "do not race competitively". Are we talking no mass start racing, or no racing of any kind?


What other kind of racing is there?


No, I don't count "KOM chasing" as racing, nor do I think half of the people I hear using that word actually have any significant KOMs, judging by the KOMs in my neck of the woods which must be held by either Pros who were visiting or ebikes.

I suppose racing your mates from one intersection to the next would count, but I wouldn't know what that's like. I don't have any friends who ride bikes (nor any time or interest in making new ones).

EMX ITT is different from mass start racing
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, You should have just said. You came to Enablers Anonymous

Cause that thing is sexy. No two ways about it. And she should be thrilled you'd rather ride a new bike than a new...
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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So many people do EMX ITT, that when I google it I didn't even get a search result.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Merckx Time trial; as in, no aerobars
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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This post is timely.

- I'm a former road racer and don't see myself ever entering a cat race again.
- I will occasionally do a mass start road fondo
- I plan to race the Alpe d'Huez triathlon on my road bike
- I like to go fast
- I do group rides

However, I find myself riding mostly gravel and my current road bike gets less and less used.

Yet, I still want a Basso Diamante SV...
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Yet, I still want a Basso Diamante SV...

Why?
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
2) Why buy a top-spec, expensive (which I'll arbitrarily define as $10K+) mass produced bike, when you could get a custom built one for a similar price? It seems like the answer here is some combination of wanting to ride what the pros ride and lack of originality/laziness (no offense intended).

Potential reasons:

1-"Custom" isn't necessarily an intrinsic benefit. If you don't need any custom considerations with respect to geometry or mounting points, buying off-the-shelf is a simpler process.

2-Maybe you just like the aesthetics of current-generation monocoque carbon, especially considering that the bike will most likely be using modern components that were designed to look nice on these frames.

3-Top-end modern aero racing frames can be lighter and more aerodynamic than most custom offerings.
Last edited by: HTupolev: Sep 14, 20 13:28
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing from folks who own a high-end road "race" bike but do not race competitively. Why do you own a "race" bike as opposed to something more "endurance" oriented which presumably is better suited to what you're actually doing on the bike (i.e., long rides, group rides, the occasional fondo, or days when you just want a break from your TT rig).

I ask because I find myself wanting a S Works Tarmac TL7, but then I ask myself, what for? I have two beautiful custom bikes but both are more "endurance" oriented: a custom Ti Enigma and a Stelbel Rodano Disc (with clearance for 700x38) both Super Record level builds. Even if I were to enter a legit road race or crit, I'd probably just ride my basic Bowman Palace:R (Chorus, Zondas) so as not to look like a Fred when I get dropped.

Who are the people buying all the Tarmac TL7s such that they're on a massive back order? And why are they buying them? What am I missing here.....

Like you, I love the look and the nice 'package' of a purpose built full-on race bike like the new tarmac or new cannondale supersix, but damn, I personally can't imagine spending that kind of money on a bike like that. I have certainly spent a lot of money on bikes over the years, but I'd never spend a tonne of cash on a race road bike as I just don't think I'm getting a great value for my dollar. I'm still riding my 2008 Cervelo SLC-SL, which was (still is) an aero race bike. I bought the frame used and built if up on the cheap in 2010 and have around 70,000km on it. I've never had issues with comfort or thought I needed an endurance bike for pure road use. A road bike is a road bike IMO - assuming it fits well, handles well, and meets your aero/weight desires.

The bike that I did spend a lot of money on, but not 10k! was my custom steel English gravel bike with etap. This bike gets a lot of use, and I loved the process of dealing with Rob English. This bike fullfilled a longtime desire to do my own geo from all the experinece I've obtained over the years road racing and gravel racing. It really is an amazing bike and I don't regret it for a second!

The other bike I didn't mind spending more money was my mtn bike - I find with mtn bikes, that the more you spend, but better things get within reason - and assuming it meets your needs. The downside of mtn bikes is you will never get as many years out of them, so they tend to be one of the worst ways to spend bike dollars...

_______________________________________________
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
Not to bury the lead here, but part of the purpose of this thread is I'm looking for a reason / justification to wife why I "need" an S Works Tarmac SL7 despite having multiple "dream" bikes already. Sorry for not making that more clear.

I mean, it just looks so damn good in that Black/Red fade colorway! You guys are giving me nothing!

Start racing then you will need it. I hundred people will show up at the local group ride every week and try to kill each other but race promoters can't get anyone to show up and actually pin on a number.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:

Yet, I still want a Basso Diamante SV...


Why?

Cuz it's a hot looking bike.


My wife is more pragmatic, she bought a gravel bike with racy geometry (for gravel) which is similar to an endurance geometry for road.
She'll just swap wheels and pedals and use the bike for both.
Given my usage patterns, I might end up going the same way. Maybe a 3T Exploro?
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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I picked up a BMC Time Machine Road last year, using the rationale that getting more bike than I needed would motivate me to ride even more and get my fitness to a place where I deserved it. I am certainly riding it more and fitness is improving as it is far more fun to ride than anything else I had demoed at lower price points. On days I am lacking the energy to ride my wife forces me out the door to justify the investment.

You will ride it more because it is your dream bike, which will make you happier and more fit, which will benefit your wife and marriage.

Alternatively, if she shuts you down, tell her it is cheaper than a divorce. That should work ;)
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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I own a Caad12 and a Parlee Rz7 factory edition. If I am going road racing, I will be on my Caad12 on HED Jet6+s. Only race what you can afford to replace.

My Parlee is the nicest bike I have ever ridden, but it ruined bikes for me, I don't lust for anything now... I think there a lot of dedicated road races that aren't racing on their nice bike.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:

Start racing then you will need it. I hundred people will show up at the local group ride every week and try to kill each other but race promoters can't get anyone to show up and actually pin on a number.


Probably a sub-topic for another thread, but my issue with group riding historically (and more recently with Strava, Zwift, etc) is how do you build that into a structured training plan. My spendS hours every month crunching my numbers and creating fairly detailed workouts for me. I’m sure she could work around the occasional 5-10 min mini race, but 1) when I did a ton of group riding on college it always took it’s toll and frequently derailed the intent of a session, and 2) is that what would great the optimal result if your goal is to qualify for the USAT TEAM USA, not beat a bunch of local schlubs up Heartbreak Hill.
Last edited by: wintershade: Sep 14, 20 14:28
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
Thom wrote:

Start racing then you will need it. I hundred people will show up at the local group ride every week and try to kill each other but race promoters can't get anyone to show up and actually pin on a number.


Probably a sub-topic for another thread, but my issue with group riding historically (and more recently with Strava, Zwift, etc) is how do you build that into a structured training plan. My spendS hours every month crunching my numbers and creating fairly detailed workouts for me. I’m sure she could work around the occasional 5-10 min mini race, but 1) when I did a ton of group riding on college it always took it’s toll and frequently derailed the intent of a session, and 2) is that what would great the optimal result if your goal is to qualify for the USAT TEAM USA, not beat a bunch of local schlubs up Heartbreak Hill.

I had my best triathlon results in the years I road raced most. My only race win at the oly distance was then.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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In response to both your questions - and as a sample size of one I am similar to you. I have a couple older road bikes in very good shape - one Titanium with Record 11 and one Steel with DuraAce - but went out and got a Cervelo R5 last year with Di2. And I love it. I personally prefer the race geo to the more upright endurance geo - for example I used to have a Tarmac (SL3 I think) and rode a Roubaix a few times and didn't like it at all. I like the way the race geometry descends, I like the fit I can get on the bike and I think it feels great to ride fast on it.

I don't do any road races anymore but if I did I would probably ride my older bikes anyway - especially if I did a crit.

Onto your second question - why ride top-spec when lower spec will do - same response. I think Di2 shifts better... and why not? It's not that I want to ride what pros ride - it's that I want to ride was feels great for me. I think if you can afford the bike - buy something you like riding and don't let anyone tell you that you don't "deserve it" because you don't ride fast enough, far enough, race enough or whatever...
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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For the same reason people buy Humvees to go grocery shopping and Corvettes to commute (with the occasional burnout to impress some age-inappropriate gal, lol).

What the hell, you can't take it with you.
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Re: Why buy a high-end road race bike? [AndyPeterson] [ In reply to ]
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AndyPeterson wrote:
Folks have been saying this for a while, but this SHOULD be the golden age for custom steel. You can get a reasonably light custom made steel frame for less than 3K. Why aren't the fancy custom steel makers killing it right now? Why does everyone want an SL7 or Madone instead of Stinner or Speedvagen? Or, if you really want to spend money, Appleman? I mean, really -- it seems crazy that an Appleman is only $1K more than an SL7.

Andy

Can you tell me why you’d get a custom steel over a race bike? I don’t know anything about steel bikes
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