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Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why...
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So coming up on a couple months since the IPO WSG was announced and eventually came to market. Quick recap, talked about at $19, went to mid teens, then 9 to 12 bucks closing on the release date, and then dropped to $8 if you wanted the IPO. IT opened and dropped like a rock to the low 6's, and had a steady bead downwards, putting a valuation on WTC and Insport of about1.4 billion market cap(400+ million based on stock price, + the billion+ in debt that didnt include)

A lot of us were waiting for a sub 4 dollar price, some low 3 dollar to jump in, I bought at 3;60's and was ready to leverage down to 3. But within a day it bottomed out, and with huge volume, went back up, and in big chunks. Just after a few days at about 4.80 I jumped off again, but it kept going well after that. Some smart guys postured that the banks that led the IPO charge were pumping it, in fact two put buy ratings on the stock the same day. IT was their belief that they were trying to get it back to the $6 dollar range so they could dump off a bunch where it actually opened, and get away as much as possible.. It went to the mid $5's, and then reversed, with very low volume since then. It sits at around $4.60, goes down most every day a little, with little volume no matter what the market is doing that day..Smarter guys than me think we see 3 dollar+ prices again, and think it will be the time to get in once again, or for the first time if you missed it last trip to this price..

SO throwing this out there to get some collective wisdom on this strategy, and what folks think long term outlook could be as a hold too. My problem is not about what is going on at WTC, I think I have a good handle on that, and over all the years it has been a business, I have guessed pretty much spot on what it was worth. I know the shenanigans they played too over the years to dupe the bigger fish into thinking it was worth more, but I'm afraid the music stopped with Wanda, no chairs left, no bigger fish to dupe. And now we have Wall Street backing up my assessment pretty much on that worst buy of the year award..

But what about Infront, I have no idea about that company, what is going, prospects, downfalls, etc. Originally it was valued at more than half of this IPO, but is it still, or was it just an even bigger bungle that WTC was? They just had earnings for WSG, what do some of you that specialize in this think is going on? SO far it seems to be going the way that some smart guys over in the lavender room have predicted, just trying to do some research so that I can be more informed, and perhaps make some money in something that I know, just missing a piece here and there..

So what have you got, who else is doing what I'm doing, and what is your new target buy price on this downslide?? OR is it just toxic, stay away(and why) or is it a buy much sooner, low 4's perhaps?Here is the old thread if anyone needs to catch up;

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._string=wsg#p6951710

I was so happy when I owned Ironman, but it was short-lived, I want to be an owner again...This time I will keep a few shares no matter what.. (-;
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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The most interesting brand name that company has is 'Blatter', not Ironman.

***
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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If Wanda Sports Group's unit InFront had secured the Nation's Championship Rugby rights, in the end it was voted against by the World Council. This IPO would have likely hit big. The return they were promising World Rugby was in the several billions.

Now...I want in because I think I can make some cash as it goes up and down. But it did not hit the mark on my buy order that is still in effect. Although, I might amend that and buy more. At some point this stock may stabilize and having 20 or so stashed away would be cool. Sort of like owning stock in the Packers, except you could actually sell it. But in the end, World Triathlon Corporation is not what we're buying here, it's only a piece of it.

InFront is run by Sepp Blatter's nephew. I couldn't believe how intertwined Triathlon and Rugby were about to become.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I’m not out in the woods yet...
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah. Rugby nearly became as dirty as wendyball.

The problem with offering World Rugby gazillions is that its on a hope and a prayer that they can subsequently milk the Northern Hemisphere (really England and France as the other rugby nations are too small or rugby is a 5th choice sport) to death for more and more ££ selling on the TV rights.

About 10 years ago the 2nd tier in English wendyball accepted that kind of offer from TV... subsequently the TV Co went bust and didn't pay and the 2nd tier clubs were left high and dry. Maybe World Rugby saw it as too good to be true ?
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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If I were a betting man.......I'd short it.
The excitement of the IPO has died off, price has kind of settled and in very slow decline as people lose interest, and what news could really come out that would cause it to jump??
Short it and then get out when it hits $4.

Just my .02, possibly worth less.... :)
Last edited by: SBRcanuck: Sep 11, 19 4:16
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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WTC belongs in the hands of a (1) benevolent super-wealthy hobbyist, or (2) a group organizing an LBO at a deeply discounted price.

It will get to one of the above when the Dalian Wanda people come to grips with the huge loss on their investment, and just move on.

If I were WTC management, I secretly would be working on a management buyout.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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If I were a betting man.......I'd short it. //

I believe there is a rule that you cannot short a stock for some period of time after it's IPO, someone smarter here can let us know how long and if it is still the case..

Otherwise I would have been shorting it in the 5's this time for sure...But now at this level, I would just wait, smaller window to try and squeeze into...
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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The excitement of the IPO has died off,//

oh, the excitement has worn off alrighty, was set to go at 15 to 17, lowered to 9 to 12, eventually settled at 8 as the IPO price, and then immediately dropped to $6 on opening day, then dropped to 3 1/2 from there.. That was one exciting IPO for sure....(-;
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I guess you did it right you bought and sold it pretty much at the right time.

The thing is I guess the reason there is no hype because it dosnt say ironman
If that was the case more people like yourself would be proud to own it.

At sub 4 I was really interested to buy it. But I guess investing in Gustav Iden was more profitable unless one bought when you bought.
As you say the issue is I know nothing about the blatter part only that this name alone tells me to be very careful. And the debts are certainly worrying

But I have really not enough knowledge and use it to learn something. But I must admit I'm a bit surprised that threads on it create so little interest.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Its almost criminal that they saddled this thing with $1B in debt cause it would be a nice little niche company. To me the ability to pay down this debt is really the big question. This thing needs earnings growth or its just treading water until a downturn which will put it in trouble. But what we all are really asking ourselves is can we make any money trading the stock. I don't really see any winning strategy here. There is not much volume and the thing seems to be drifting lower. If you want to own ironman then just buy it now and hold for the long haul. You can also look for trading opportunities separate from the share you hold.

The thing about public companies is that they seem to force themselves to try to constantly do big deals. They plow ahead into these deals regardless of all the red flags that are visible to anyone involved. Looking at the second quarter they had some really small acquisitions that make no sense for a company like ironman but they did them anyway. The 2019 guidance isn't going to get anyone excited about this stock. Its actually quite boring I guess i would look to buy shares any time it falls below 4.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [Abergili] [ In reply to ]
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This stock doesn’t look to be an attractive investment. We’re in a bull market and it’s languishing, low trading volume, and no ‘castle in the air’ story to excite potential investors. Yes it could go up sometime in the future, but most likely will drift down as current investors sell to get out of a lackluster investment, but why tie up your money waiting.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Its tanking near the buy zone today. Down on light volume. Also PTON went public this week, crazy thats its worth $8B. edit only $7B at $25 per share
Last edited by: Abergili: Sep 27, 19 10:14
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [Abergili] [ In reply to ]
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White House looking at potentially kicking out all Chinese companies from U.S. exchanges, lot of uncertainty with that.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [Abergili] [ In reply to ]
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Its tanking near the buy zone today. Down on light volume. Also PTON went public this week, crazy thats its worth $8B. edit only $7B at $25 per share //

I'm going to wait for another 5 to 8% on WSG I think, then start nibbling. Peloton went down to the 23's, then bounced back to where it started today, 11% off yesterdays IPO price. SO it seems to have hit a temporary bottom, but I would not touch it here at all...
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [bryguy] [ In reply to ]
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bryguy wrote:
White House looking at potentially kicking out all Chinese companies from U.S. exchanges, lot of uncertainty with that.


yeah, my BABA (Alibaba) shares are down 5% today. But they have done OK as I got that stock on the downdraft period after the IPO
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Sep 27, 19 13:54
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Its tanking near the buy zone today. Down on light volume. Also PTON went public this week, crazy thats its worth $8B. edit only $7B at $25 per share //

I'm going to wait for another 5 to 8% on WSG I think, then start nibbling. Peloton went down to the 23's, then bounced back to where it started today, 11% off yesterdays IPO price. SO it seems to have hit a temporary bottom, but I would not touch it here at all...

Peloton stock seems wayyyyyy over valued. Once earnings his that thing could slide pretty far.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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What’s the financial analysis behind buying this stock in the 3s vs the 4s? Aside from the obvious point that 3 is a lower number than 4?

As I recall this company has negative net worth, you have no voting rights with the public share class, it’s foreign domiciled, and its a hodgepodge of businesses that have zero synergistic value.

You might as well buy a penny stock.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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You ever pick up some WSG? I did soley for enjoyment, right around where it is today.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [DBF] [ In reply to ]
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I got some at about 3.50, watched it go a bit lower and waited. Probably waited too long though, but still waiting for another bottom bounce. If it gets back to that 3.40 level or under, thats where I will pick up a good amount to just sit on like last time. Maybe there will be good earnings news this next time out, as it will include Kona. That's of course assuming Kona went well for them financially, the race itself was a great one.

But yes, I own Ironman, once again... (-;

Of course I would not recommend this stock to anyone, it is just too hard to know what is really going on. If it were just ironman, and the debt was manageable, it would appear that you are almost getting infront for not too much extra. And they are the wild card here, WTC is just a churning business that is quite predictable. Infront could sign some major deal worth 100's of millions overnight, and then of course it would then be catch up on the stock after that. I'm just hoping for that side of the business to deliver better than before results, and the brass ring is just a bonus if it happens.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Bottom seems to have dropped out this past week and a big slide today. This is not a good sign. Glad I had my money tied up elsewhere. They made their earnings announcement...and I’m guessing it was not received well with the slide from today.

Now we watch (some from the inside) how this plays out.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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$2.85 a share, down 12% just today and theres 4 hours left till market close. YIKES!
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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BT_DreamChaser wrote:
$2.85 a share, down 12% just today and theres 4 hours left till market close. YIKES!
Like I said, their earnings report EVEN WITH KONA did not look good.
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [BT_DreamChaser] [ In reply to ]
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BT_DreamChaser wrote:
$2.85 a share, down 12% just today and theres 4 hours left till market close. YIKES!

i am a proud owner of ironman. as of today ;-)

i don't care about the chinese opacity. i know how the company is run. (well, the ironman side of it, less the infront side of it.) i don't care about the non-voting shares. what i care about is the debt wanda group put on it. it's laughable that the interest on the debt comes as a "surprise" to analysts today.

the market cap is under $400 million. wanda paid $1.2 billion for infront. if infront is worth, say, half of that (and one hopes it's worth a lot more than that) then the ironman part of WSG is now valued at under $1 billion, and that's with the LBO-style promissory note wanda group lopped atop WSG. this is now closer to what i think the thing is worth. i still might be overpaying, but at least i'm making an honest investment today.

i think ironman - just the ironman part, along with rock n roll and the other various events (breck epic, etc.) - is probably getting closer and closer in value to what wanda paid for it. the killer was the note wanda put on the company. the valuation needed to factor in that note. i trust we're now getting there. that note won't be there forever.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Who wants to buy(or sell) Ironman, and why... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Same here - I just bought in as well. Now if WSG/WTC would institute some sort of Ironman owner special race entry process and/or automatic bid to Kona every year I'd be sitting pretty!

tinman
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