My two 'big' events every year are Ironman African Champs and the 90km (very hilly) Comrades Marathon.

People always ask me which is more difficult. I always tell them that Comrades is more difficult on the day (and much more painful) but that it is harder to train for an Ironman, because of the three disciplines of course.

I am a pretty average athlete though, IM PB is 12h09m. I think it might be different depending on the level of the athlete?

I don't know you, but I can almost guarantee that you won't ever finish the Barkley. The guys that finish are the top ultra runners in the world, not triathletes trying their hand at trail running!

To answer the question, they have been my hardest experiences. I have done a few marathons and big sportive rides, but they weren't as difficult. Liege Bastogne Liege last year in the cold was probably the next hardest for me.

I beg to differ
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Interview/The_triathlete_who_conquered_Barkley_6298.html
Barkley is an extreme race, but you don't have to be a top ultra runner to finish, you need to be good at staying awake and very good at navigation.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Assuming we are comparing like-for-like performances i.e. being in the top 10% of your age group in both events the question is really a matter of training preference. People who favour high intensity session will always find 140.6 more difficult than a 10km. Conversely those who struggle to make it the track for 800m reps will find a 140.6 easier than a 10km.

Personally I would much rather do 1km hill reps than a 5hr bike ride any day so I find the longer Tri distance nearly impossible to get in shape for. At the same time I have teammates who avoid having to do true speed work like the plague which means they cannot compete at the shorter distances.

I dont know you but thats a pretty mean spirited thing so say . Hopefully no-one said anything like that to you before your first Ironman or any other athletic endeavour .

I am in awe of anyone who even gets to the starting line of Barkley - that would be way harder in itself in any Ironman - to finish one lap Wow - to finish the fun run Triple WOW ! And to finish the whole damm thing your a deadset legend !

Go for it Turdburgler

Exactly what they said about Ironman in the early days .

Lets just pray that Barkley ( the race and its competitors) never gets anything like Ironman .( it wont)

I would argue that the entire premise of the Barkley is a gimmick. Especially now with all the media covering the event plus the qualifying race. That however takes away nothing from the finishers as it is no doubt brutal.
Ironman when it started wasn't anything like the barkley other than that both started as challenges, laz just wants the race to be as impossible as he can conceive.
And also not sure how Gary Robbins ever could be considered a top ultra runner, he’s a good hiker i guess with semi decent navigation skills.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

If someone said to me that I will never win Kona, I wouldn't consider that mean spirited. There have been far more people win Kona than finish the Barkley.

If Turdburgler said that he has done Badwater and/or Hardrock and/or UTMB and now is considering going for the Barkley, I would say fair enough, even then the odds would still be massively stacked against him. Just saying that the finishers aren't really all that good, and that staying awake and navigating is good enough massively underrates and disrespects the race.

What about the 67,000ft of climbing and descent over what is said to be about 120miles?

EDIT: I mixed up Turdburgler and Oscaro's replies. It is Oscaro who doesn't seem to think the Barkley would be difficult.

No I mentioned in both my posts that it is incredibly difficult. Look, I'm not taking away anything from anyone who has attempted or finished barkley, I'm saying that a race where the average pace is 30 min/mile is obviously not about running even if they do run in the race. The people who succeed are great at navigation and handling sleep deprivation, and have incredible mental fortitude. I also never said the finishers weren't good, I replied to the comment that you have to be a top ultra runner to finish which is not true, these guys would get eaten alive by the real mountain goats like D'Haene, Jornet, Wamsley, King etc.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I am happy to say I will never win Kona and probably won't finish Barkley though I had a damn good crack at it and did quite well (and I do have Badwater experience as well.). I am a fairly fast long course triathlete and I promise a 9h20m Ironman is easier than a fun run: for me anyway! I still want to attempt to finish it under the cutoff though.

Ultrarunning is more difficult for me because I am a pure swimmer and biker. Triathlon is easier for me because there are three distinct efforts on my part that spread the physical toll across my body. Running has not come as easily and doing the same thing over and over without stop for a day sucks. The longer things tend to stretch out the better I do and its fun to have targets to shoot for even if they might not be likely.

No harm no foul mate! In reality, all of this shit is just different shades of hard and the true joy in this is doing MY best and seeing where the hell I land. Cheers.

I am a life-long swimmer, so doing other activities means overcoming the handicap of being challenged on land. That said, I think the years of high-level swim training gave me the discipline to be able to set goals and know what it took to achieve those goals.

I ran 9 stand-alone marathons (I ran 7 before I ever ran a 5k, 10k, 21k...), two Eagleman 70.3, three Louisville IM, and one solo 12 mile OW swim (and the training for all of those) in the years after I was diagnosed with Hodgkin Lymphoma (IIa). A lifetime of swimming gave me the discipline to set the goal to "get to work and beat this thing." After that, I was just glad to be able to have the opportunity to do those endurance events. Two out of my three IM Louisville races were 94 degrees off the bike, which really isn't all that bad after my urine turned red from the adriomycin in my chemo drips. So that's my perspective: there's really nothing all that difficult about setting and achieving athletic goals once I had set and achieved a goal to just live. Qualifying for Boston (3:09 when I was almost 34 years old and slightly muffin-topped) is cool, but so was getting back the CT and MUGA scans that indicated that my tumor, once as big as a large sweet potato, was gone. Big deal if I had to walk a bit at aid stations on the run in Louisville, when it was in the low 90's. Sure, I was a bit bummed that I didn't break 11:00 one year (when the temp off the bike was "only" 74), but I was glad that the run split showed that I was 3:58 that day.

What was intensely satisfying is that when I went to medical to get an IV after one of the really hot races, I was unfazed by the needle going into my arm. The guy in the next cot was crying like a baby (or the guy in that scene from "Glory" when he was about to get a leg amputated without ether) about getting that little IV needle stuck in his arm. When you've beaten cancer AND gone sub 12:00 on a hot day a few years later, you can laugh at the dudes who have faced nothing more daunting than a med student trying to start a line...

It's all about perspective.

Going that 3:09 was pretty satisfying though, because after surviving massive cramps at mile 24, I was still able to tough it out and come across in that BQ. I'd still pick those cramps over chemo and Neupogen any day...

For me the “Whiteface Mountain” uphill race was more physically and mentally challenging than IM. It was was only and hour for me but brutal!

---

It's a Good life if you don't Weaken!
My Mom 1922-2004

Like this?

https://ultrasignup.com/results_participant.aspx?fname=Gary&lname=Robbins

Assuming it is a gimmick (your words), I was not aware of how the media has made it more gimmicky? It seems to me like the event itself is basically unchanged with the advent of the increased media presence. Can you provide an explanation or specific examples?

I kind of question your knowledge of the event when you state that there is a qualifying race, which is not true. Have you been to this event, or do you just read about it on the all-knowing internet?

Not sure what yoy point is? He would have finished 3h back at ws100 and likely 5+h back at utmb. If you look at his results he gets crushed every time he has some competition, but has had success in hilly ultras with little to no depth. Not sure why you or others take this so personally, pretty sure Gary would tell you he isn’t on the same planet as Kilian, D’Haene, Walmsley etc.
Also there is a qualifying race for the Barkley, but i guess that’s just one of those things i read on the internet...
https://ultrasignup.com/register.aspx?did=50528

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I think you're being a unfairly dismissive of Robbins' abilities by describing him as "a good hiker with semi decent nav". Sure he's not the among the very best of ultra runners, but no one flukes a 4th place at UTMF or 6th at Western States.

Those are the performances of a very good runner.

Can anyone finish Barkley with only "semi decent navigation skills" ?

It's right up there in terms of accomplishing something difficult (physically), mainly because my body generally doesn't like a lot of volume..it tends to fall apart.

But mentally, I have been more scared of some of the pre-season Aussie rules football sessions I did when I was younger...& getting through some of them nearly killed me... this was in mid January (summer) in AUS, back in the days when you were soft if you needed a drink....!

100 mile trail run was by far the hardest thing ever.
2nd would be an ultraman, but it wasn't truly hard until the 2nd half of the 2nd day, and then again the 2nd half of the 3rd day.
3rd would be my first ironman. After a few of those, they seem to be about as hard as a 50 mile trail run.
Swimming 22 miles across Lake Tahoe was about the same as an Ironman (13 hours), but that was so beautiful and surreal, the pain in the arms was easy to forget.

All of these things get easier the more you do them and the body and mind adapts.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Yes maybe I was a bit harsh, but utmf isn't nearly as competitive as utmb where i doubt he would crack top 20, and as I said he would be 3h behind walmsley at WS which means Walmsley. Sure he is a good runner, as much as the winner of your local turkey trot is a good runner. He is not however a top ultra runner even though he has won a few weak races.
Also, he hasn't finished Barkley, he has never been able to navigate the last lap when he is alone and sleep deprived.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

My first 140.6 was a spiritual experience and felt amazing. Was tough but as was aiming to finish was never that awful

3 days of seatracing in rowing boats. Both at a junior and a university level. Breaks everyone - the question is who has anything left when they get swapped. Brutal and the hardest for me by far.

09/30/17 - Solo Everesting (29,000' on bike) - 9/10

Can you explain what that involves.

I think the IM race distance is a pretty challenging test. I’ve done 14 of them, with #15 this fall (hopefully). They seem to be getting harder (at age 61) and I’m surely getting slower. I find the hardest part, at times, is putting the work in. The novelty has worn off. I’ve been blessed to get to Kona (sorry about the brag). I have no chance of ever PRing again, so finding the motivation to get out there and ride for 6 hours when I could just stay in bed is getting a bit harder...

That said, I’ve never been in real duress in an IM race. And it’s over in 1 day and then you shower and sleep in a bed, so there are clearly harder things to do.

I’ve done many marathons and a few ultras and they are very tough as well. I personally don’t think a marathon is harder than an IM (although a bunch of my running buddies seem to think so). I think if you’re really able to get in cutting edge IM shape then it could be just as painful and mentally taxing as a hard marathon. It’s just way harder to get your body to stay on the rivet for a whole IM than it is for a marathon.

I’ve been climbing big mountains for a while and they are very hard in a different way. Some of the climbs have been as long as 35 days and the challenge of that is different than a one day race or a 2 hour run. Especially when you get north of 20000 feet on a 15+ hour summit day, dead tired, cold and windy, with life ending fall exposure...it is a challenge for sure.

My son climbed Everest last year, and a buddy of mine just summitted K2. They both are also accomplished IM and ultra guys and they think big mountain climbing is the ultimate test.

I did RAAM a few years ago as part of a relay and I had an up close view of the solo racers and that is one seriously challenging event!

What Jurek did on the AT is up there as well.

It’s all good. I wish I could do more than I’ve done but am thankful for my small accomplishments and am truly in awe of what others have done....

---

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Thanks for a wonderful post.

Informative, insightful and humble; you have done some exciting and interesting things with you life. I hope you have many good years ahead.

If I were more curious, I would ask what your specific criteria are for a good ultra runner - where is the cutoff? But I am not that curious I guess, so don't answer. We can agree to disagree on how we two individuals subjectively rate Mr Robbins abilities.

Also, I guess I interpreted your qualification race comment incorrectly. I thought you meant EVERY applicant/entrant was required to do some qualification race. In this single case, yes, the winner of that race is offered a slot. (maybe LAVS also?)

I'm out now, have a good day!

After watching the documentary on the Barkley, it seemed to me that just one lap would be the equal of an Ironman (to say nothing of doing it at night and orienteering to boot). I'd be interested in your perspective.

---

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.