Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 18:17

Post #201 of 282 (2398 views)

Yeah, I was just being facetious because I'm absolutely convinced that tri-bikes are not a deterrent to entry, and are not the reason why participation is falling. There are a lot of other issues that are endemic to triathlon as a sport that make it difficult for young adults and especially those with young families to decide to try it, and even more so to stick with it.

I completely agree with you on duathlon. I do them wherever they fit my schedule and have competed at national and world champs in the sport. But there aren't many to choose from nearby and most triathletes avoid them like the plague.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 18:20

Post #202 of 282 (2394 views)

HuffNPuff wrote:

synthetic wrote:

HuffNPuff wrote:

There's a lot of equipment that you could ban and save folks a lot of money. I'm not holding my breath that USAT will take that step and thus put a lot of companies out of business.

Most tri bikes can be converted to road bikes. Also they can be phased out, perhaps a points system awarding more for those who use road bikes. Hmm maybe we can throw wetsuits into this game

Let's run with this. To keep the arms race from simply shifting over from tri bikes to road bikes we need to also ban clip-on aerobars, tri-cockpits on a road bike, reversible seat posts, Red Shift seat posts, power meters, any cycling computers on the road bike, disc wheels, wheel covers, and any deep dish wheels. Road bike frames must be entirely aluminum with box rim aluminum wheels, and mechanical shifting only with nothing better than Shimano 105. All road bikes must compete with Gatorskins and bike must weigh at least 18 lbs. Hybrid bikes get 3 mins deducted from their split and mountain bikes get a 5 min advantage. USAT refs need to be retrained to ensure to focus on maintaining lowest common denominator equipment.

But before we get to this stage, please tell me wh
en you realistically expect USAT to ban tri-bikes.

How many really race for a podium?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 18:29

Post #203 of 282 (2389 views)

Depends on the field Dave. In a small race with maybe 15 age groups for both genders, and going 3 deep, you would have 90 podium spots. So that would be 50% for a race with a field of 180 but only 10% for a field of 900. I know a MOP guy that looks for small races with just 3 or less in his M65-69 AG just so he can podium.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 18:30

Post #204 of 282 (2389 views)

I know you were, I'm just lazy and it was most convienent to reply to you. I think a good start to helping tri would be to increase du participation. Seems like an easier sell to a non-swimmer than a full tri, then they can move to tri as well if they want to once theyre part of the multisport scene.

Biggest hurdle to people racing tri is swimming, especially fear of open water. Best way to overcome this is to get more kids swimming early and to try and spark an interest in tri for younger kids. Kids triathlons are great. Forcing kids into tri will destroy it, but if kids do a race or two in a summer for fun they're way more likely to participate later in life. Most club swimmers I know get burned out with it when they get older and they'll never touch it again, I think this also directly impacts participation; if someone already likes and is good at swimming they're far more likely to stick with the sport.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 18:31

Post #205 of 282 (2387 views)

But isn’t that the issue. There are real reasons why people can’t do tri. One being the swim. So it’s not like your going to change that. I mean it’s already a sport that is cutting out 50% of the population because of the swim. So there are some things you can’t change. Others are suggestions to make it easier for the rest of the 50% to do/stay in the sport.

So what can you as a sport actually implement to make changes? Lower race costs? Lower bike costs? Lower apparel?

ETA: You even said you didn't get into the sport because of the expense at certain times in your life. Your sons would rather run because of the affordability. So why not address that aspect of it. That's the point I'm trying to get after. I guess I'm rather flabbergasted that you guys are telling me the sport it's expensive, your telling me you were limited because of the cost and your kids are limited because of the cost.....and then tell me things that are expensive and we can create solutions to that problem, won't matter to make them less expensive.

Your a sport that is by default s-b-r any modification of that means your not doing tri (or atleast what we have currently setup as the sport...I’m sure there have been all kinds of modifications but you get my point). So you have to come up with creative ways to make the sport affordable.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jan 4, 18 19:52

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 19:25

Post #206 of 282 (2365 views)

HuffNPuff wrote:

Depends on the field Dave. In a small race with maybe 15 age groups for both genders, and going 3 deep, you would have 90 podium spots. So that would be 50% for a race with a field of 180 but only 10% for a field of 900. I know a MOP guy that looks for small races with just 3 or less in his M65-69 AG just so he can podium.

Yep i know these folks also.

This was HITS process first year. One year ag awards. So many folks were happy. So showed me an rd may be better to focus on the 99% folks and not the 1%.

Man i have races where in our 60 to 64 ag i am the only one let alone older groups.

I wish usat trying to see if they find a solution.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 19:31

Post #207 of 282 (2362 views)

imswimmer328 wrote:

I know you were, I'm just lazy and it was most convienent to reply to you. I think a good start to helping tri would be to increase du participation. Seems like an easier sell to a non-swimmer than a full tri, then they can move to tri as well if they want to once theyre part of the multisport scene.

Biggest hurdle to people racing tri is swimming, especially fear of open water. Best way to overcome this is to get more kids swimming early and to try and spark an interest in tri for younger kids. Kids triathlons are great. Forcing kids into tri will destroy it, but if kids do a race or two in a summer for fun they're way more likely to participate later in life. Most club swimmers I know get burned out with it when they get older and they'll never touch it again, I think this also directly impacts participation; if someone already likes and is good at swimming they're far
more likely to stick with the sport.

So true about du is a great place to start but so many can not run 5k let alone two of them. Dus hurt so bad compared to a tri.

I think a lot of the issue is also just the usa attitude. Nothing is moderation. Not even st talks about the positives of short course racing let alone there is no real reason to ever go longer. But usa always about more than needed. Whether size of homes or cars over even just a plain meal.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [endosch2] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 20:00

Post #208 of 282 (2346 views)

endosch2 wrote:

Jctriguy wrote:

You are without doubt 100% incorrect. Just as a question, how much contact do you have with youth sport participants? Are you a high school/college coach? Do you run a club? Are you a race director for youth events? Just curious to add some context to your replies.

I have no idea how you could entertain the notion that Gwen Jorgenson has brought 1000 -10000 young women into the sport - to me that seems delusional. She does not get any exposure outside of our universe. More than that at this point it is a year in the past.

I am a member of a tri club. I have teenage daughters. One has raced Xterra and other tris. The younger 15 year old does road and mountain bike races. There is a massive high school mountain bike league in New England that has 600 racers spread across 40 or so private and public schools. Mountain biking is growing at high school ages around 20%. The 18 year old who races tris has never once had a competitor in a local or regional triathlon. She qualified for Nationals in Omaha but decided not to go.

Different sport - same concept - Both of my daughters are also high level nordic skiers. The US Womens Nordic team (Jesse Diggins, Sadie Bjornsen, Sophie Caldwell, Kikkan Randall) is the best it has ever been in world cup rankings and podiums in history but I would not believe for a minute that has effected even 200 young girls positively in a way to make them join the sport.

Not even sure how to respond to this. What does Rio being 1.5yrs ago have anything to do with what impact Gwen has had on participation in triathlon? Not sure what races never have another 18yr old competing. Maybe they are incredibly small races in an area with no triathlon presence, but we had a youth series in Ontario that had dozens racing at ever age group.

Why do you think that the US skiers haven't had any impact on anyone joining the sport? You do know that a lot of Olympians discuss how they started when they saw the Olympics on TV or an Olympian hosted an event when they were younger. Role models are a real factor in all areas of life. But, we clearly aren't going to get anywhere here...

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 20:01

Post #209 of 282 (2345 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

US has for the last 10 years had only a DL pathway for juniors. It's very competitive and has also created a high burnout rate from juniors advancing into ITU (they still do tris they just give up elite development pathway). You have to travel to select races, very demanding competition demands, etc. So the solution that was created was the "HS" pathway. It's a non-draft "team" oriented structure. It's the "age group" pathway for juniors. It will create far bigger numbers in the upcoming years then I imagine the junior elite/DL pathway because it's much less intense and the demands of competiion aren't there. You don't have to worry about getting lapped out, you can race for your "team" and you have a team atmosphere to race with and for. 2018 will be year 3 for the HS "championship". It's still mostly club level teams versus actual high school school teams, so if you live in an area you can form a team and race under 1 team. There are some private schools that have picked it up.

Hi Brooks,

Can you point to links that explain the concept above? I'm involved in Youth triathlon but not in the US, and interested to know more about these 'team'-oriented competitions for kids and if it's something worth exploring for us.

Thanks in advance.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 20:08

Post #210 of 282 (2340 views)

https://www.teamusa.org/...n/elite/junior-elite

junior elite info (DL-itu pathway)

https://www.teamusa.org/...lete-resources/youth

youth non-draft info

https://www.teamusa.org/.../High-School-Program

HS team non-draft info

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 20:09

Post #211 of 282 (2339 views)

In 2017 20 states held HS state championship races for HS teams and athletes.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 18 17:04

Post #212 of 282 (2273 views)

My daughter is 8 and did her 1st triathlon this summer....she also does fencing, kid obstacle course racing, runs, basketball, swims, and plays soccer....and no traveling teams

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]

Jan 6, 18 6:13

Post #213 of 282 (2206 views)

Couple things come to mind as I look for races in 2018. I have not signed up for any yet. My 4 year old has done 2 tris. My 8 year old has done 10 or 12. They will both do 3-5 this year. I have done close to 100.

Top three races I have ever done.
1. TTT as a team
2. HFP Elite race doing 3 x something like 300m/7mi/1.2mi w/ a short break between each. That may be #1
3. TTT solo

Worst triathlon choice was doing IM in 2005 and 2006. Wish I never did that. I blame the go long culture for that.

At this point in my life TTT is beyond me and certainly isn't a way to introduce new people to the sport. Interesting thing is as I watch my kids race now I wish I could race the same distances maybe just multiple times. In OH we have a lot of options. My thought now is do I do sprints or oly this year. Problem is I have done that a lot and lets just say I'm not getting faster.

What I see is the short stuff is marketed to beginners. I just want to race - hard. I would think the younger folks are in a similar boat. They don't want to spend their life on a bike then spend 5k on a triathlon vacation to do an all day race. I think #2 above is my #1. The amount of pain we were in before starting that third race was huge. We were smoked. In total we didn't race more then 90:00. I miss that comradery and competition. If I remember right I got my bum handed to me too! Best part was I was next to the fast guys three times (the start!) and in 25:00 they can only get so far ahead.

What do others remember their top 3 tri experiences being? Is it still available today? What makes you sign up for a race now?

Sorry for the ramble.

Ed Alyanak

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ealyanak] [ In reply to ]

Jan 6, 18 6:45

Post #214 of 282 (2194 views)

ealyanak wrote:

What do others remember their top 3 tri experiences being? Is it still available today? What makes you sign up for a race now?

Not sure what motivates me to pick a specific race, just whatever grabs my interest at the moment. Lately it's been going new places of interest (recently did Cartagena 70.3 and planning to do St. George 70.3 in May so I can make a visit to Zion). Top 3 triathlon experiences:

1. SOS Triathlon - amazing event
2. Cartagena 70.3 - amazing city, first/only WTC AG podium for me, just a fun vacation overall
3. Ironman Lake Placid - Beautiful bike course. Great crowds in town both bike and especially the run.

Dimond Bikes Superfan

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ealyanak] [ In reply to ]

Jan 6, 18 8:28

Post #215 of 282 (2175 views)

ealyanak wrote:

What do others remember their top 3 tri experiences being? Is it still available today? What makes you sign up for a race now?

I'm 60 and live in Florida. If all I had to look forward to at this point of my life was the same old short course races at the same venues racing the same people (i.e., the few left still able to toe the line in my AG), then I would be done with triathlon. So those expensive tri-cations the younger crowd aren't interested in are exactly why I'm still in the game. I'm fortunate to have experienced a wide variety of races but I'll say the best three I've done are IM Regensburg (Germany), IM Kalmar (Sweden), and Powerman Zofingen (Switzerland).

I'm excited about racing Ironman Norway this summer...and all the additional touring I will do as well. Does this make me responsible for the 'go long culture'? I don't think so...it's just what I want to do now. And I would be the first to encourage all beginners to start with sprints. It's their decision if they eventually want to go long.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]

Jan 6, 18 12:38

Post #216 of 282 (2140 views)

Steve-oH! wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

And my reply was when your generation had kids and then didn’t get those kids (who are now the millennials we talk about) in the sport. You are the generation that raised the millennial generation now. So I’m not blaming you guys just stating that as you guys grew the sport, you never looked for the next generation. For whatever the reasons were, that generation that grew up with the sport from the 80’s is directly responsible for the millennial generation that we are now perplexed why they won’t do it.

hint hint- it has everything with the sport/athletes turning the sport into IM and LC focused as you guys "grew" the sport.

That to me is the most puzzling....the people seemingly most shocked by tri participation numbers are the same people who didn't do anything to keep new generations coming into the sport...that's head scratching.

ha!....i didnt know i was responsible for "getting millennials in the sport". I dont remember anyone "getting me in the sport" I did it because i wanted to. I thought it was a cool challenge to try and be competent at three endurance sports....if you have to "get people in the sport" it assumes they arent internally motivated to do it....and likely wont stick with it. They best situation is you do it because YOU want to do it. Millennials don't and I don't see that changing. Despite all the your USAT and College teams of draftathletes that are small in total numbers anyway....

by the way, I have completed 389 triathlons and only 2 were Ironman, (LC) never my cup of tea, Vast majority of my finishes are sprint triathlons that I have always loved....

Is it really a moral failing for a generation (nevermind all the flaws in that whole concept) to not get into a specific sport? And even the incredibly popular ball sports have youth outreach programs; why is it so different to suggest triathlon should do the same?

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ealyanak] [ In reply to ]

Jan 6, 18 17:46

Post #217 of 282 (2107 views)

ealyanak wrote:

Couple things come to mind as I look for races in 2018. I have not signed up for any yet. My 4 year old has done 2 tris. My 8 year old has done 10 or 12. They will both do 3-5 this year. I have done close to 100.

In Reply To:

Top three races I have ever done.
1. TTT as a team
2. HFP Elite race doing 3 x something like 300m/7mi/1.2mi w/ a short break between each. That may be #1
3. TTT solo

Worst triathlon choice was doing IM in 2005 and 2006. Wish I never did that. I blame the go long culture for that.

At this point in my life TTT is beyond me and certainly isn't a way to introduce new people to the sport. Interesting thing is as I watch my kids race now I wish I could race the same distances maybe just multiple times. In OH we have a lot of options. My thought now is do I do sprints or oly this year. Problem is I have done that a lot and lets just say I'm not getting faster.

What I see is the short stuff is marketed to beginners. I just want to race - hard. I would think the younger folks are in a similar boat. They don't want to spend their life on a bike then spend 5k on a triathlon vacation to do an all day race. I think #2 above is my #1. The amount of pain we were in before starting that third race was huge. We were smoked. In total we didn't race more then 90:00. I miss that comradery and competition. If I remember right I got my bum handed to me too! Best part was I was next to the fast guys three times (the start!) and in 25:00 they can only get so far ahead.

What do others remember their top 3 tri experiences being? Is it still available today? What makes you sign up for a race now?

Sorry for the ramble.

I am with you...if I could find a super sprint with at least 100 participants I would be all over that. I love short, fast, and hard....

A ss sprint continous double would get me excited. ...these formats might offer something different and draw some more and younger people to the sport.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]

Jan 6, 18 20:07

Post #218 of 282 (2077 views)

I love short and fast too. Past 2 years I've done draft-legal sprint, and love it. Would totally do a team super-sprint relay if it was available... that would be really fun.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Jan 7, 18 4:35

Post #219 of 282 (2039 views)

HuffNPuff wrote:

Quote:

I'm 60 and live in Florida. If all I had to look forward to at this point of my life was the same old short course races at the same venues racing the same people (i.e., the few left still able to toe the line in my AG), then I would be done with triathlon. So those expensive tri-cations the younger crowd aren't interested in are exactly why I'm still in the game. I'm fortunate to have experienced a wide variety of races but I'll say the best three I've done are IM Regensburg (Germany), IM Kalmar (Sweden), and Powerman Zofingen (Switzerland).

I'm excited about racing Ironman Norway this summer...and all the additional touring I will do as well. Does this make me responsible for the 'go long culture'? I don't think so...it's just what I want to do now. And I would be the first to encourage all beginners to start with sprints. It's their decision if they eventually want to go long.

Not blaming anyone or triathlon either. It is the entire culture that says a longer coarse athlete is better. Finishing a marathon is a bigger accomplishment then a 3:59 mile to those outside the sport. I do agree that large tri vacations and races are a great part of the sport. As a community we need more then that though.

Met a pile of locals yesterday to do a kit sizing and was bumed to learn our "Wednesday night worlds" series is ending. These were $15 dollar races 0.5mi/21mi/3.5mi races 3-4x per year at a local park. I think they grew to much and became a huge amount of work for the organizer. My guess is some of us will get together and start doing midweek racing with no coarse markers, just a piece of tape on the ground and race anyway.

Ed Alyanak

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ealyanak] [ In reply to ]

Jan 7, 18 9:24

Post #220 of 282 (2006 views)

Any chance you are in the Dayton, OH area.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]

Jan 7, 18 10:34

Post #221 of 282 (1990 views)

Quite a good chance!

Ed Alyanak

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ealyanak] [ In reply to ]

Jan 7, 18 10:54

Post #222 of 282 (1982 views)

What is the tri scene like in Dayton? I'm probably going to be working there this summer. Also, those races sound like fun, even done unofficially.

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]

Jan 7, 18 11:03

Post #223 of 282 (1971 views)

Quite good. Really I have nothing to complain about!

hfpracing.com and speedy-feet.com are good places to start looking for events in the area. Also check out the metro parks for places to run. You can swim in Caesar creek in the summer any time from the beach safely (safer with someone else.) Most Saturday and Sunday mornings you will see a number of people in the water swimming.

Ed Alyanak

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [ealyanak] [ In reply to ]

Jan 7, 18 11:07

Post #224 of 282 (1966 views)

Awesome, thank you!

Re: What was Triathlon participation this year....another down year? [Jim @ LOTO, MO] [ In reply to ]

SallyShortyPnts

Jan 7, 18 12:10

Post #225 of 282 (3021 views)

Jim @ LOTO, MO wrote:

It was definitely down here in Missouri. I don't keep track of all the triathlons, so I can't quantify it accurately, but I'd guess we're down around 10%.

I do, however, keep track of participation at all the half and full marathons in the state, and we're down for the third year in a row. In fact, the rate of decline is still increasing. Here are the total number of half and full marathon finishers in Missouri:

2012 52,762
2013 55,716
2014 56,787
2015 51,999
2016 47,894
2017 42,000 (there's just one small race to go, and I've included an estimate of 300 finishers for it)

Six half and/or full marathons (of a total of 68) that were held in 2016 didn't return in 2017.

Just this past week, Rock 'n' Roll St. Louis was cancelled for 2018. In the inaugural year of 2011, that race had nearly 18,000 finishers. This year, they had 5,500--and that includes 2,000 for the 5K and 10K that weren't even offered until participation started falling precipitously a few years ago.

In short, the situation is bad compared to a few years ago, and while I keep looking for signs of leveling off, I don't see any.

Where we were; where we are. The majority has spoken and now everyone gets to live with the byproduct of their choice for another three years. As for me, I'm not waiting that long. It's 75 degrees in the sun, and I'm going for a run.

DFL > DNF > DNS

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