For a lot of folks who are into that ego stuff, I agree. But yep, I was a unique manager, surprised? I found the best folks, and could care less about if they had a degree or what type.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

We are done here. I don't know why I bother, but I did. I'm talking about the hiring managers, not the candidates. So, it has nothing to do with ego. The hiring managers care about the college/university the candidate attended. No, it is surprising one bit that you would go against the grain. And, some others would too. But, my point is that the VAST majority of hiring managers will care.

Thanks for focusing back on the original question and giving your perspective.....I would appreciate hearing others who pay attention to participation numbers in their areas.....and people can offer their perceptions behind the numbers and why they are up and down and if we are going to level off......I would also appreciate others ignoring the usual actor that derails threads. My personal policy is never to respond to a certain poster.

As Bryan D stated, here in NC some of the race companies have dropped races. Our area (NC) used to be a hot bed for triathlon, but now is down for sure. Hell there is talks that IM 70.3 NC may be cancelled.....why....money. Which is really annoying because the original B2B was affordable and worked "with" the community. So if communities want to play more hardball with an company like WTC and make them walk, I get it.

HS aged athletes have grown a ton in NC, new team out of triad E3 has increased a lot of numbers there.

ETA: I think locally the "classic" events are growing strong, what we are seeing is the races that are only a few years old seem to be struggle. Probaly NC's best race besides 70.3 Raleigh, would be Lake Logan race weekend.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I was interested in this new SwimRun in Minnesota...(ironically I had mentioned this area as a fantastic place for a Swimrun in a thread at one point months ago....)

BUT...it was $400 for a 2 person team at the cheapest rate and was turned off....what are others thoughts about the price for this event??

https://www.igniteswimrun.com/minnesota

....I assume this is one part of causing participation numbers eroding....here is an event I would be interested in but immediately turned off by the price....and I could afford to pay it....no problem....but just couldn't justify it....

There is a local group here that organizes free outdoor run group training.
It's not sponsored, you don't get marketed to, you just show up and someone explains the workout and everyone goes for it.
It's MASSIVELY popular, and putting all those personal trainers and expensive clinics out of business.

Personal anecdote about race organizing: I organize gravel and road rides.
For me to turn one of those into an event, instantly puts me at starting expenses of a minimum $3000. Insurance, medical, timing, aid stations.
For an event with any frills at all, I'm looking at $5000+
For a big experience event, double that and up.
Putting on a multisport event has similar costs or more.

The complexity of multisport and bureaucracy creates a lot of incentives against putting on events, and leaving only expensive events.

As much as I enjoy what now looks to be the annual “blame millenials for the sport’s (assumed) decline” thread, I had some thoughts on this.

Perceived Startup Cost:

Swim
Pool Membership $50/mo
Masters Membership $30/mo
Goggles $50/yr
Speedos $100
Wetsuit $500+

Bike
Bike $4,000+
Race wheels $2,000
Shoes $150
Power Meter $1,000
Trainer $1,000+
Training Platform $100-$200
Clothing $500

Run
Training Shoes $500 (1 pair a quarter)
Racing flats $100+
Training clothing $200+

Misc.
USAT License $45
Coach $1,000+
Team $30+
Nutrition $2,000
GPS watch, bike computer, etc $1,000

That’s before you get to the opportunity cost of 10+hrs a week of training. Then you have to pay for your races.

We all know that entry into the sport costs less than this, and these things are accumulated over time. That said, anyone who counts that cost before beginning the hobby would easily be convinced to try something else. We’re already talking about a small subsection of culture that finds endurance sports interesting. We are the sport’s worst enemy. Not millenials.

-a nearly millenial’s perspective (born Feb ‘84)

Yep, I was a hiring manager for 20 years. Had more women engineers than any other manager. Had tons of folks I hired end up in very top positions in various companies.
But I agreed with you, the VAST did care about a title rather than a persons ability. And yep, this allowed me to get some very very top talent with the wrong piece of papers.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You literally need half of that and almost all of it you can get for 1/2 to 1/4 of that cost you put in.

Can equipment be stupidly expensive, sure, but you don’t need it.

I agree....but do you think potential new Triathletes know that?

So very true. I started up with the sport two years ago and my total expenses are significantly less. Still, when I work to draw friends in to participate with me, the cost is hard to overcome.

I just did the math on my year and a half in the sport, and I’m into it for about $5,500, and I already owned a nice road bike. It adds up really fast.

I know half of the active people on this forum have a product to sell, but a sticky of how to get started in the sport without taking out a second mortgage may be helpful?

There is a local group here that organizes free outdoor run group training.

------------

I'd be curious if they make people sign waivers or not (acknowledging the risk). Or if it truly is just a "show up and run" setup.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I know half of the active people on this forum have a product to sell, but a sticky of how to get started in the sport without taking out a second mortgage may be helpful?

Ok try this, my comments in red on your "perceived cost"....

Perceived Startup Cost:

Swim
Pool Membership $50/mo ....fair cost
Masters Membership $30/mo....fair cost
Goggles $50/yr...i'd give cost that over 2 years and including backup
Speedos $100.....i'd wager that is a cost over 2 year average)
Wetsuit $500+ .....you can give a full sleeved for under $300
(so i saved you about $275)

Bike
Bike $4,000+ (buy a Cervelo/Felt/BMC for $3k tops)
Race wheels $2,000 (rent them for your A race, ~$200 dollars at most)
Shoes $150 ....fair cost
Power Meter $1,000.....single sided crank based for less than $700-garmin
Trainer $1,000+......you can get a solid trainer for under $400 and wont wear your tire out
Training Platform $100-$200
Clothing $500
(just saved you ~$3000)

Run
Training Shoes $500 (1 pair a quarter)
Racing flats $100+
Training clothing $200+

Misc.
USAT License $45
Coach $1,000+.....you can find free training programs online
Team $30+
Nutrition $2,000
GPS watch, bike computer, etc $1,000


I think some of your figures are slightly "expensive", as you can easily get "quality" name brand equipment much cheaper than quoted. But then it's what do you want out of this sport? Want to go as fast as you can, then sure you'll need some items, but you can certainly race fast and well without a $4k bike and race wheels.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Agreed. I've been building PCs and being a PC gamer since 2003. The skill level and team work required to win those tournaments is crazy. People think it's just a video game. It's not, it's so much more than that.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I feel like I’m derailing the thread now, so sorry to the OP.

Your red numbers are totally valid, but they still add up to to around $10k. Like I said earlier, my real world startup costs are in the $5k range, and I’ve tried to stay pretty cheap (self coached, inexpensive bulk buys for nutrition, eBay purchases etc). My costs DO include races and local travel (fuel/campground).

However, my point is perceived cost. Someone new to the sport is going to look at an Ironman entry fee and immediately balk. If they have a friend who participates, they may find a YMCA try a tri and give it a shot. But then they’ll run into the world of forums and podcasts and potentially decide they had a great one time experience and try something else.

The runologie run club does this and the Sir Walter group has pop up miles and XC races they will organize that are all free. The only triathlon specific event like this I saw was through that store Trilife. They had a strava group but would put on these throw-down events around Jordan I think. I had messaged one to see if they actually had folks attend, but no response. Also a quick google shows they are no longer in business. . .

I have been looking for tri clubs that may do things like this, but they seem pretty few and far between compared to the running scene in Raleigh.

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Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

Yup. One time waiver.

A few years ago tri life (now out of business) had free tri and duathlons like Once a quarter. You had to sign waivers for those events and they even gave away top 3 prizes. For them it was a way to try and grow customer base for their tri store.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

One would hope that someone new to the sport would start off with sprint triathlons and take a few years climbing the ladder to get to an Ironman. I know there are some that go straight to the big event; but that reminds me of folks whose first running race is a marathon. Stupid is as stupid does.

gotcha, they must have been out of business once I discovered them. I will ask Pat if they require waivers for the pop-up miles and XC stuff. The Runologie training may be the same way then. I know they offer a coached 1/2 marathon group program for pretty cheap, but they also offer a free program that just says to show up on wednesdays.

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Use this link to save $5 off your USAT membership renewal:
https://membership.usatriathlon.org/...A2-BAD7-6137B629D9B7

I think the decline will continue. I think triathlon participation in the U.S. has peaked, but I think triathlon as we've known it in the U.S. since the mid 1980s will continue for least another 15 years. Who will be the Dan Empfield of U.S. triathlon in 20 years? (Sorry Slowman if I'm putting you out to pasture too soon).

As we all know, competing in triathlons isn't the only way to enjoy SBR. I work at a university and I still see a lot of young people running around campus and working out in the rec center.

Yes, we would hope people would know that. I also know that when I tell someone I did a triathlon over the weekend, their eyes bug out and they say, “that thing in Hawaii?’

It’s a niche sport in an already small niche.

You really do have to be a gamer to understand just how unworldly the pros are.... similarly, you'd have to be a triathlete to appreciate how insane the S/B/R times are of some of the pros. If you told someone random on the streets that Patrick Lange ran a 2:39 at Kona last year they'd say "so what?"

What happens after 15 years? No more Ironman? ITU disbands? Marathon participation falls so low that Boston and NYC close their doors? And we end up with only a choice between color runs and eSport?

I wrote "triathlon as we've known it in the U.S. since the mid 1980s" so I wasn't writing about marathons. If the average U.S. triathlete (not the common Joe on the street) in 15 or 20 years simply says he or she is doing an IM whenever he or she is doing a triathlon of any distance it won't be triathlon as we've known it since the 1980s. ITU can be dominant in other parts of the world in 15 or 20 years, but even less of a factor in the U.S. than it is now. I realize this sort of reads like a doomsday scenario, so maybe there is little reason to be concerned about the current fade in U.S. triathlon participation.:)