Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
What is wrong with my triathlon?
Quote | Reply
I completed the Buffalo Springs 70.3.

Despite my age, preparedness, the conditions, I experienced the same type of decline as the race progressed as what normally happens and has happened to me several times.

I'm 40 yrs old, at 158 lbs. Racing tri for 10 yrs, and running off and on for 25 years.

I ate breakfast (pancakes, sausage, and hash browns) 1.5 hrs before my start time.

I took 3 gels on the bike, and had 1 gatorade bottle on the course and 1 bottle of EFS Pro (1st Endurance) along with 2 bottles of water. I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.

My run felt weak and my pace began at 9:30 per mile and then down to 11:00 per mile after for the last 10 miles of the run.

This same scenario plays out even on 140.6 races and despite the temp/conditions. Rather than the last 5 miles on the bike, it's the last 25 miles that crushes me on the bike and then I'm flamed out for the run.

What am I doing wrong? Not training hard enough or not eating sufficiently calories?
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Riding too hard for your current ability.

I used to do it all the time. Then I slowed down on the bike and ran so much better.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
original wrote:
I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.
Sounds like you didn't have a great bike to me, and you overdid the first 46 miles.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I do not know what EFS Pro is, but I take 1 gel or equivalent every 15' on a 140.6 as well as on a 70.3.
This amounts to 11 gels when biking 2:45' or 22 gels when biking 5:30'.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
longtrousers wrote:
I do not know what EFS Pro is, but I take 1 gel or equivalent every 15' on a 140.6 as well as on a 70.3.
This amounts to 11 gels when biking 2:45' or 22 gels when biking 5:30'.

Holy cow, that might be part of it, under-fueling... the gel packets say to take one every 45 minutes- and i usually do one every 60 minutes.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jaretj wrote:
Riding too hard for your current ability.

I used to do it all the time. Then I slowed down on the bike and ran so much better.

My bike isn't that strong right now, but I honestly rode with restraint. I kept my HR around 145 the entire time (both with and against the wind) except on the hills.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Different people can ride at different intensities.

Several years ago I was able to ride at 80-85% in a HIM all of the time, over 85% and I couldn't run worth a dang. Now I'm more like 77% as my ceiling to be able to run well.

The first time I ran well off of a HIM bike ride I rode stupid easy, so much easier than I thought I was capable of. The following run was 20 minutes faster than I had ever ran and very close to my predicted time. I've tanked it a few times after that race chasing what I thought I was capable of doing and learned from each bad run.

It takes practice, patience and riding volume to be able to run well off the bike.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jaretj wrote:
Different people can ride at different intensities.

Several years ago I was able to ride at 80-85% in a HIM all of the time, over 85% and I couldn't run worth a dang. Now I'm more like 77% as my ceiling to be able to run well.

The first time I ran well off of a HIM bike ride I rode stupid easy, so much easier than I thought I was capable of. The following run was 20 minutes faster than I had ever ran and very close to my predicted time. I've tanked it a few times after that race chasing what I thought I was capable of doing and learned from each bad run.

It takes practice, patience and riding volume to be able to run well off the bike.


I asked for help and guidance, and I think this is it. I can push myself on the bike unlike any other sport (not sure how/why), but this is the logical answer.

Thank you!
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
original wrote:
longtrousers wrote:
I do not know what EFS Pro is, but I take 1 gel or equivalent every 15' on a 140.6 as well as on a 70.3.
This amounts to 11 gels when biking 2:45' or 22 gels when biking 5:30'.


Holy cow, that might be part of it, under-fueling... the gel packets say to take one every 45 minutes- and i usually do one every 60 minutes.

If you were truly keeping your bike conservative and monitoring power, this is definitely a possibility. 100cal/hour is not nearly enough. At 145lbs I do 300-360 cal per hour. You should be looking to get in about that much also. Everyone is different though, so the amount you need varies, but I can definitely tell you 1 gel per hour is not nearly enough for anybody.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
g_lev wrote:
original wrote:
longtrousers wrote:
I do not know what EFS Pro is, but I take 1 gel or equivalent every 15' on a 140.6 as well as on a 70.3.
This amounts to 11 gels when biking 2:45' or 22 gels when biking 5:30'.


Holy cow, that might be part of it, under-fueling... the gel packets say to take one every 45 minutes- and i usually do one every 60 minutes.

If you were truly keeping your bike conservative and monitoring power, this is definitely a possibility. 100cal/hour is not nearly enough. At 145lbs I do 300-360 cal per hour. You should be looking to get in about that much also. Everyone is different though, so the amount you need varies, but I can definitely tell you 1 gel per hour is not nearly enough for anybody.

At 145 lbs, I'm very near 300 to 360 an hour as well. Normally that's 3 gels and some drink. (Edit) - per hour.
Last edited by: jaretj: Jun 27, 18 10:27
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
original wrote:
I completed the Buffalo Springs 70.3.

Despite my age, preparedness, the conditions, I experienced the same type of decline as the race progressed as what normally happens and has happened to me several times.

I'm 40 yrs old, at 158 lbs. Racing tri for 10 yrs, and running off and on for 25 years.

I ate breakfast (pancakes, sausage, and hash browns) 1.5 hrs before my start time.

I took 3 gels on the bike, and had 1 gatorade bottle on the course and 1 bottle of EFS Pro (1st Endurance) along with 2 bottles of water. I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.

My run felt weak and my pace began at 9:30 per mile and then down to 11:00 per mile after for the last 10 miles of the run.

This same scenario plays out even on 140.6 races and despite the temp/conditions. Rather than the last 5 miles on the bike, it's the last 25 miles that crushes me on the bike and then I'm flamed out for the run.

What am I doing wrong? Not training hard enough or not eating sufficiently calories?

100 calories and hour is not remotely close to what I believe you need

What happens when you bike 75 miles in training?
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lots of good advice here.

You could also look at adding some more long rides. It could be a muscular endurance issue, as you are falling off pace during the ride.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [RBR] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RBR wrote:
original wrote:
I completed the Buffalo Springs 70.3.

Despite my age, preparedness, the conditions, I experienced the same type of decline as the race progressed as what normally happens and has happened to me several times.

I'm 40 yrs old, at 158 lbs. Racing tri for 10 yrs, and running off and on for 25 years.

I ate breakfast (pancakes, sausage, and hash browns) 1.5 hrs before my start time.

I took 3 gels on the bike, and had 1 gatorade bottle on the course and 1 bottle of EFS Pro (1st Endurance) along with 2 bottles of water. I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.

My run felt weak and my pace began at 9:30 per mile and then down to 11:00 per mile after for the last 10 miles of the run.

This same scenario plays out even on 140.6 races and despite the temp/conditions. Rather than the last 5 miles on the bike, it's the last 25 miles that crushes me on the bike and then I'm flamed out for the run.

What am I doing wrong? Not training hard enough or not eating sufficiently calories?


100 calories and hour is not remotely close to what I believe you need

What happens when you bike 75 miles in training?

Haven't done anything beyond 60 miles in 12 mos. No time. That's why I have not done a full IM since 2015.

However, when I ride 75-100 miles, I usually try to consume 200-300 calories per hr.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
original wrote:
RBR wrote:
original wrote:
I completed the Buffalo Springs 70.3.

Despite my age, preparedness, the conditions, I experienced the same type of decline as the race progressed as what normally happens and has happened to me several times.

I'm 40 yrs old, at 158 lbs. Racing tri for 10 yrs, and running off and on for 25 years.

I ate breakfast (pancakes, sausage, and hash browns) 1.5 hrs before my start time.

I took 3 gels on the bike, and had 1 gatorade bottle on the course and 1 bottle of EFS Pro (1st Endurance) along with 2 bottles of water. I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.

My run felt weak and my pace began at 9:30 per mile and then down to 11:00 per mile after for the last 10 miles of the run.

This same scenario plays out even on 140.6 races and despite the temp/conditions. Rather than the last 5 miles on the bike, it's the last 25 miles that crushes me on the bike and then I'm flamed out for the run.

What am I doing wrong? Not training hard enough or not eating sufficiently calories?


100 calories and hour is not remotely close to what I believe you need

What happens when you bike 75 miles in training?


Haven't done anything beyond 60 miles in 12 mos. No time. That's why I have not done a full IM since 2015.

However, when I ride 75-100 miles, I usually try to consume 200-300 calories per hr.

I am wondering why you consume 2 - 3 times as many calories in training than in a race.

If I were you I I would do 400 in a race
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [RBR] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RBR wrote:
original wrote:
RBR wrote:
original wrote:
I completed the Buffalo Springs 70.3.

Despite my age, preparedness, the conditions, I experienced the same type of decline as the race progressed as what normally happens and has happened to me several times.

I'm 40 yrs old, at 158 lbs. Racing tri for 10 yrs, and running off and on for 25 years.

I ate breakfast (pancakes, sausage, and hash browns) 1.5 hrs before my start time.

I took 3 gels on the bike, and had 1 gatorade bottle on the course and 1 bottle of EFS Pro (1st Endurance) along with 2 bottles of water. I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.

My run felt weak and my pace began at 9:30 per mile and then down to 11:00 per mile after for the last 10 miles of the run.

This same scenario plays out even on 140.6 races and despite the temp/conditions. Rather than the last 5 miles on the bike, it's the last 25 miles that crushes me on the bike and then I'm flamed out for the run.

What am I doing wrong? Not training hard enough or not eating sufficiently calories?


100 calories and hour is not remotely close to what I believe you need

What happens when you bike 75 miles in training?


Haven't done anything beyond 60 miles in 12 mos. No time. That's why I have not done a full IM since 2015.

However, when I ride 75-100 miles, I usually try to consume 200-300 calories per hr.

I am wondering why you consume 2 - 3 times as many calories in training than in a race.

If I were you I I would do 400 in a race

Personally I try to eat as much as I can, without causing “gurgling” in my stomach. If my hr is low enough I eat solid foods like homemade rice bars or PB&J for awhile until I switch to gu/drink.

If I don’t eat well I crash hard.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hash browns for breakfast? What did you eat fast food place?
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There is some solid advice in hear - but to me it doesnt sound like you are getting enough food.

For me @ 170lbs I will average 145-150bpm on a full distance or half distance and my nutrition on the bike is pretty straight forward, I consume 1 shot blok (1 blok not pack) every 20min and 1 complete bottle of Gatorade endurance every hour (or as close as possible) and sip on some water as needed.

If I am using the Infinit it is straight 1 bottle an hour and my mixture is roughly 300cals per bottle
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
synthetic wrote:
Hash browns for breakfast? What did you eat fast food place?

The hash browns I can sorta see. Not my usual race breakfast, but everybody's different. It was the sausages I didn't understand. 700kCal of fat and protein gurgling around in your gut, probably inhibiting your hunger so you don't eat enough later on. Oh wait. That's exactly what happened.

So that would be my advice: lay off the fat and protein for breakfast. Save that for "recovery" later in the day - burgers are good for that, combined with the ultimate recovery drink: beer. And eat oatmeal for breakfast, like every sensible soul does :-)

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What was your training like?
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
original wrote:
I completed the Buffalo Springs 70.3.

Despite my age, preparedness, the conditions, I experienced the same type of decline as the race progressed as what normally happens and has happened to me several times.

I'm 40 yrs old, at 158 lbs. Racing tri for 10 yrs, and running off and on for 25 years.

I ate breakfast (pancakes, sausage, and hash browns) 1.5 hrs before my start time.

I took 3 gels on the bike, and had 1 gatorade bottle on the course and 1 bottle of EFS Pro (1st Endurance) along with 2 bottles of water. I had a great bike... managed my effort, power, and HR all the way, but the last 5 miles were different despite riding with measured effort. It felt like my power availability went down by 30% for the last five miles of the bike.

My run felt weak and my pace began at 9:30 per mile and then down to 11:00 per mile after for the last 10 miles of the run.

This same scenario plays out even on 140.6 races and despite the temp/conditions. Rather than the last 5 miles on the bike, it's the last 25 miles that crushes me on the bike and then I'm flamed out for the run.

What am I doing wrong? Not training hard enough or not eating sufficiently calories?

In your case, probably not eating enough. I had something similar happen to me during training/races where I'd bonk HARD and suddenly after XX-amount of time. I could hold about 250 NP @ 160 lbs for 90% of the bike, and then have a hard time holding 125 W for the last 10% but it was from overdoing it.

I don't know why it happens that drastically, but I have legs one second and then I don't.

I eat like a crazy-mofo too, I go out for a few hour ride and can take up to 1000 cals, if I go hard enough, I always crash drastically power-wise.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Richard Blaine wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Hash browns for breakfast? What did you eat fast food place?


The hash browns I can sorta see. Not my usual race breakfast, but everybody's different. It was the sausages I didn't understand. 700kCal of fat and protein gurgling around in your gut, probably inhibiting your hunger so you don't eat enough later on. Oh wait. That's exactly what happened.

So that would be my advice: lay off the fat and protein for breakfast. Save that for "recovery" later in the day - burgers are good for that, combined with the ultimate recovery drink: beer. And eat oatmeal for breakfast, like every sensible soul does :-)

Bingo, lay off of the fatty foods. Drop the hash browns and the sausage. Perhaps go with apple sauce, oat meal, dates, fig bars...grains and fruits/natural sugars. Squeeze in some sweet potatoes.

Additionally, start to eat 3 HOURS before your race to give your body time to digest.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Me too. If my stomach can handle it I eat. I'm usually pretty concerned about getting my l liquids in as well as I tend to forget to drink. I have a planned amount of fuel to take in on the bike and if my system is taking it okay and I feel hungry I take more.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [original] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I do approximately 3 flasks of EFS Liquid Shot on the bike for my 70.3 and it works well, so that works out to ~1200calories, so ~400cal/hour. I am at ~165lbs, but for me that is the amount that has worked.

Also to me that breakfast just seams wrong only 1.5h before the race. I know that varies on the person also, but I try to go with an easy digestible breakfast of oats and protein 3hr before (~800cal) then eat a banana or energy bar of some sort 1.5h before, then a 100 cal gel 15min before the swim start.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
LifeTri wrote:
Richard Blaine wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Hash browns for breakfast? What did you eat fast food place?


The hash browns I can sorta see. Not my usual race breakfast, but everybody's different. It was the sausages I didn't understand. 700kCal of fat and protein gurgling around in your gut, probably inhibiting your hunger so you don't eat enough later on. Oh wait. That's exactly what happened.

So that would be my advice: lay off the fat and protein for breakfast. Save that for "recovery" later in the day - burgers are good for that, combined with the ultimate recovery drink: beer. And eat oatmeal for breakfast, like every sensible soul does :-)

Bingo, lay off of the fatty foods. Drop the hash browns and the sausage. Perhaps go with apple sauce, oat meal, dates, fig bars...grains and fruits/natural sugars. Squeeze in some sweet potatoes.

Additionally, start to eat 3 HOURS before your race to give your body time to digest.

Those were my first thoughts as well. 3 hours for me and definitely not a breakfast like that prerace.
Quote Reply
Re: What is wrong with my triathlon? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
synthetic wrote:
Hash browns for breakfast? What did you eat fast food place?

Yes. First time for fast food since November when I did the same thing before a 40 mile ultra run. November was whataburger and sunday was mc'ds.
Quote Reply

Prev Next