An Ironman is a guy/girl with $750 to spend on entry fees and a calf tattoo. Likely will be wearing no less than 2 other pieces of clothing with an m dot at any given time.

A triathlon branded by "Ironman" that is very close to the three distances: 2.4/112/26.2. I am cool if they are off by a little bit, but they should probably be within a couple percent of the published distances.

Now that is the most sensible comment I have seen yet.

The ironman race was originally a race on Kona. This is been expanded to a generic event and distance in other locations, which should try to match it (the distances) as best possible.

Ironman is 2.4/112/26.2. In my mind that is the only answer. We used to discuss the differences and difficulties of all the Ironman races in relationship to each other. For example: Coure de lane had a really nice swim but really tough bike, Florida is really flat but has a tough ocean swim, Arizona is always fast unless the wind blows, Wisconsin has an awesome run and really hilly bike etc... but what they all had in common was the distance. The distance never used to be discussed, it was just fact.
I have also noticed that this seems to be more of a problem with "newer" races like Chattanooga (this is also a problem with some 70.3 races). All the old school Ironman venues never seemed to have this problem.

But it wasn't branded so the original "Ironmen" are posers.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I made sure that i did my first "Ironman" as an actual Ironman branded event largely because i am slightly autistic i think and so if anyone asked me if i had "done an Ironman" i wouldn't have had to say "yes, sort of but it wasn't an actual Ironman, but it was just as far and just as hard, basically the same thing but not the same and no i'm not lying".

Any future ones i do might well not be the IM branding, but i'll consider them as the same thing. It won't matter then because i'm an "Ironman" anyway.

(and No i don't have a tattoo)

It's interesting that 70.3 is trademarked, but 140.6 is not.

Ironman and Ironman 70.3 are trademarked with the generic distance term(s) of long distance triathlon and half distance triathlon, respectively.

Apparently, you could say that IMTX is a generic distance term Ironman race of almost 140.6 miles.

Even is Roth is an accurate 140.6 miles, it would not be recognized by the brand as a world best even if it was the fastest time in the world on a course that is rather strictly 2.4/112/26.2 = 140.6 miles.

Answer. I don't know.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

It's a brand, so whatever distance the company says is an Ironmanâ„¢ race, that's what it is.

Fixed it for you.

My answer is I don't know.

I have a question that I'm going to put here because I don't know where else to put it and I swear I'm not trying to flame things: As a guy who loves to run, like to ride a bike and only tolerates swimming when I'm injured AND who has never done a triathlon and probably won't...

Why is drafting such a big deal? I get that the rules forbid it, and if it's against the rules it should be penalized. But why is it against the rules in the first place and why not just eliminate that since it appears to be too hard to really enforce?

It is the term you use when you tell people you race triathlon and they look at you funny and you proceed to say "Ironman" and then proceed to have a light turn on in their head and go "oooooooh those!"


I also think they should call it like "stainless steelman" or "Nanotube man" because iron has a tendency to rust and it is really heavy and not all that impressive of a metal.

An ironman is a triathlon event consisting of a 2.4 mi swim, 112 mi bike, and 26.2 run (distances measured with a good faith effort...very slight deviations perhaps of no more than 3 or 4 miles on the bike or half a mile on the run, if made in the effort to ensure athlete safety or obtain the permits needed to run the event, are acceptable) performed consecutively and completed within the time cutoff allowed by the organizer.

To say your GPS must read a precisely PERFECT 2.4, 112, and 26.2 is a bit intense for my taste. Run measured 25.9 on my watch? Fine by me as long as everyone runs the same course. If it measured 24.3? Ok THAT'S a foul. Also, who cares who runs the race? Ironman, your local tri club, Hits, Rev3...doesn't matter to me. If you finish the distance within a standard cutoff (which is what, 17 hours?) I feel you can call yourself an ironman. An MDot tattoo in that instance is probably a bit if a party foul if Ironman didnt run the race...

Records across different courses mean practically nothing in the big picture. Distances of transition runs, elevation on course, general elevation of race setting, prevailing winds, there are so many factors that make the debate a pointless exercise. If you aren't having those debates, the answer to what an ironman is is quite simple if you ask me.

huffnpuff is correct. and this is why the distances have always been important bordering on sacrosanct. ironman was the waikiki rough water swim, the honolulu marathon, and the circumnavigation of oahu. the template was established in 1981, when the race moved to kona. the brand description was enshrined that year. what defines the brand are these distances, because nothing in kona was 2.4mi, 112mi, etc.

that established, i don't mind if the brand no longer means that. i'm not trying to steer the brand in some way that is no longer relevant. but, to be clear, the distances were the most critical and elementary element to the ironman back then, and that was established on february 6, 1981.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I feel the answer to that is because the spirit of the event is that it is an individual effort. With drafting, you are receiving aid in your efforts in effectively the same way as having a motor in your bike.

If I pay $750, I'm wearing the gear

I don't have tattoo though. I do NOT have Mdot stickers on my car.

Cozumel was 182. Boulder was 178 in 2014 and 2015. I don't recall anyone being upset about this before. As an RD you have some limitations with the geography of the road so they need a bit of slack.

When I tell someone a time I'll often say "the course was short or long" depending. I did the same time in Boulder and Coz.. to the minute. I say that Coz is faster because there was 4k difference on the bike course.

We are racing ourselves, racing who's out there. As long as we all race the same course on the same day what's the big deal? It is fair for the RD to tell us before hand so we know. (At Coz when my odometer went past 180 I wouldn't say I was happy because I wanted off my bike!)

I see this distance thing as a diversion tactic by Ironman from the true issue of cheating and safety on the bike. The course (from what I understand) was exactly the same in 2017 and nobody cared than.

But why only on the bike then? You can run directly behind someone right? You can swim in a pack right? So why is the bike different?

And if it is an individual effort then why is it a race and why are elites all put together?

What is a marathon?
26.2 miles?
26 miles?
The experience?

I'm more inclined to say that events should match up to their advertised distances (acknowledging that race day issues may cause course changes). Ironman is SUPPOSED to be a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike & a 26.2 mile run (or their metric counterparts).Truth in advertising???

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

There is no standard. Examples below:
Ironman Frankfurt - 15 hours
Challenge Roth - 15 hours
Ironman Switzerland - 16 hours
Ironman Norway - 16 hrs 30 mins
Ironman Louisville - depends on when you start
Great Floridian - 17.5 hours

that's cool. just, for you and others, is the poll as i outlined it in the original post good to go? or does the poll need to be altered in its text or options? because, the inevitable thread will arise explaining why the poll isn't relevant or topical or properly constructed, with all sorts of suggestions about how it should have been constructed, and this thread is everyone's chance to construct the poll in advance of its going live.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan,

And I replied to this in the other thread. I don't think IM is trying to "get away" from the distances. I think what we are seeing now is the difficulties in putting on these events. You and what 300 of your closes friends did it 40 years ago. Was the event closed to traffic? Was every intersection manned by police/volunteers? I think what we are seeing is simply an race organization adapting to putting on events in 2018 and beyond. I dont think they are purposely trying to make it shorter, but I do think they are dealing with many more issues than ever before.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think the poll is concise and to the point. I hope you can leave a box for explanation of perspective though as that would very interesting to look at.

This is incredibly interesting to me and another factor that should be discussed as the ironman is defined. In principle it's very similar to differing distances. If someone came home in Frankfort at 15:02 they technically/officially didn't finish the race, but in Switzerland they'd be "officially" an ironman with the same time? Is that more or less correct?

Perhaps the question itself is all wrong.
Should we just get away from the term Ironman, call it a long distance triathlon, and be done with the posturing and branded nonesense?

I think the history and dominance of Ironman as a brand, especially in the USA it would seem, is the cause of a lot of the problem. It often seems to me that triathlon as a sport is discussed as a derivative of the Ironman brand rather than the other way around. Perhaps the (largely imagined?) prestige of an "Ironman" is paralysing the sport rather than driving it.

I'd rather have categories of events with the exact distances set at the discretion of the RD within certain guidelines, and with scope to modify if necessary for unforeseen safety considerations closer to the event time.

I don't see a poll resolving anything because I don't think the question itself has a common understanding.